[Politics] French presidential election 2022

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

A whole paragraph of ad hominem, exaggeration and personal smear before you get going. Nice.



And there's no evidence for this at all, nor have you presented any.

Quite. If one is in the mood to have an opinion and share it about, for example, how the world works, it helps to have a narrative that starts with information, collected in an unbiased fashion (not a pick-and-mix that includes unverified claims from the internet), and then make testable predictions and, to the best of your ability, you test them. I admit this is tricky with history, and the likes of Starkey and Ferguson on the right and Hobsbawm on the left are disappointingly well-know precisely because their politics connects with the confirmation bias of their acolytes rather than because they have admirable disciplined objectivity.

If instead you start with your conclusions then back fill the narrative with whatever flotsam and jetsam appear to fit with it, then you are a practitioner of charlatanry. And, no, I will not buy your bottle of Swedish coloured water.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Of course. If only you'd said that instead of attacking one horse in a two horse race.

There are plenty on here attacking the 'other horse' in this two horse race.....

FWIW and IMO the French are left with a terrible choice - in much the same way we were with Johnson / Corbyn.

The moderate right and the socialists - the two parties who for so long ran French politics are finished - it' like saying Labour and the Tories getting less than 10% in total of the vote in a GE in the UK.

Le Pen, for all her softening of image (and Frexit/leaving the € are no longer on the agenda) still leads a far right party with all its baggage (and her energy polices are simply crazy) and Macron's love of globalisation, his desire to expand and increase the EUs powers, his weakness when it comes to both the domestic issues in France and his appeasement in talks with Putin before the war mean this will be closer than five years ago.

Macron will win, simply because more of Melechons voters (he got about 22% of the vote) will hold their noses and vote for him rather than Le Pen.

 

[A1X]

I know quite a few people on the left in France
Last time they held their noses and voted for Macron in large numbers to avoid giving Le Pen victory.
As a reward Macron has treated them with utter contempt and they really do detest him. They will find it very hard to vote for him again and if they thought they could, they would abstain.
I am fairly confident they will give him the votes needed to keep Le Pen out. But Macron has played a dangerous game in taking their votes for granted.

There were a lot of Democrats in the US who couldn't bring themselves to vote for Clinton in 2016 and let Trump in as a result (and indeed some Remainers who couldn't vote for a campaign fronted by Cameron). I'd really hoped people would have learned their lesson.

 

[beorhthelm]

You get what you give.

As for evidence, there is plenty to support my views just like I'm sure there is plenty of evidence to support yours.

think asked this last time on this subject, never got a responce - who are the ruling families?

 

[highflyer]

There were a lot of Democrats in the US who couldn't bring themselves to vote for Clinton in 2016 and let Trump in as a result (and indeed some Remainers who couldn't vote for a campaign fronted by Cameron). I'd really hoped people would have learned their lesson.

What lesson are they meant to learn?

I am reasonably certain that the left will ensure Le Pen is kept out.
I am equally sure that Macron will continue to arrogantly ignore them.

If they don't turn out and Le Pen does get in, who's fault do you think it will be and what lessons might be learned?

 

[A1X]

What lesson are they meant to learn?

That sometimes practicalities need to trump principles, especially when the alternative is something extremely distasteful. You sometimes need to vote against something when you can't vote for something else. The political right have been doing this for years, it seems the left stubbornly refuse to learn the lesson.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

That sometimes practicalities need to trump principles, especially when the alternative is something extremely distasteful. You sometimes need to vote against something when you can't vote for something else. The political right have been doing this for years, it seems the left stubbornly refuse to learn the lesson.

You don't think that should Macron lose (which I'm pretty sure he won't) that perhaps the fact he has alienated so many in France on both the left and the right) might have something to do with it?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I know quite a few people on the left in France
Last time they held their noses and voted for Macron in large numbers to avoid giving Le Pen victory.
As a reward Macron has treated them with utter contempt and they really do detest him. They will find it very hard to vote for him again and if they thought they could, they would abstain.
I am fairly confident they will give him the votes needed to keep Le Pen out. But Macron has played a dangerous game in taking their votes for granted.

[tweet]1513249615658864642[/tweet]

 

[highflyer]

That sometimes practicalities need to trump principles, especially when the alternative is something extremely distasteful. You sometimes need to vote against something when you can't vote for something else. The political right have been doing this for years, it seems the left stubbornly refuse to learn the lesson.

But they DID vote to keep Pen out
And they probably WILL do so again.

My point is that if they don't, the centrists will certainly blame the left for not voting rather than Macon for failing to take any account of the interests of those who's votes he relies on.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

There are plenty on here attacking the 'other horse' in this two horse race.....

FWIW and IMO the French are left with a terrible choice - in much the same way we were with Johnson / Corbyn.

The moderate right and the socialists - the two parties who for so long ran French politics are finished - it' like saying Labour and the Tories getting less than 10% in total of the vote in a GE in the UK.

Le Pen, for all her softening of image (and Frexit/leaving the € are no longer on the agenda) still leads a far right party with all its baggage (and her energy polices are simply crazy) and Macron's love of globalisation, his desire to expand and increase the EUs powers, his weakness when it comes to both the domestic issues in France and his appeasement in talks with Putin before the war mean this will be closer than five years ago.

Macron will win, simply because more of Melechons voters (he got about 22% of the vote) will hold their noses and vote for him rather than Le Pen.

It all depends whether you consider Le Pen to be simply a fiscal right candidate who has no plans to attack minorities (banning head covering for example) or engage with other dog-whistle nazi tomfoolery, or not.

 

[Swansman]

think asked this last time on this subject, never got a responce - who are the ruling families?

Oh there's quite a few of them, a couple of hundred. The Morgans, Astors, Wallenbergs, Rockefellers and the Krupps to mention a few. Obviously not all their family members wear their names and it often takes a bit of genealogy to connect the dots.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Such a shame that Mélenchon didn't edge Le Pen out of the running - it was pretty close.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Oh there's quite a few of them, a couple of hundred. The Morgans, Astors, Wallenbergs, Rockefellers and the Krupps to mention a few. Obviously not all their family members wear their names and it often takes a bit of genealogy to connect the dots.

You do understand how likely it is that someone is related to one of around 200 human families if you go back far enough and concentrate on people from a certain region of the planet? A third cousin three times removed of a Krupp who happens to have a small business in Braintree isn't really likely to be running the world.

Also:

What is secret is the long-term plan, stretching hundreds of years. Obviously uncovered over and over in literature and bits and pieces of it leaking, but still secret. China, NK and Saudi Arabia are no exceptions of course. There may be no exceptions left at all, and if there is they will obviously be crushed.

If this is secret how do you know about it? And, if you're certain of its existence, what's on it and how far back does it date? I'm not clear on how it's executed. Are you saying that a huge global event like Covid has been orchestrated and the very different responses globally to the pandemic are really set plays and not ill prepared governments panicking? Or are you saying that the almost certain changes in our voting intentions as a result of how it was dealt with will be ignored because the plan says Boris will be in for two terms and we poor saps are placing votes that will never actually be counted?

Or, is the plan really high level enough to be "control the media" in which case, the Chinese state media is controlled by their governments, not by a Rockerfeller, Russia is pretty much only showing RT, the BBC has a duty to neutrally report world news and, in any case, the internet allows for alternate information to be hosted.

Actually that's it, isn't it. Us Sheeple should look for alternative news sources and then the world will be saved.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

What lesson are they meant to learn?

I am reasonably certain that the left will ensure Le Pen is kept out.
I am equally sure that Macron will continue to arrogantly ignore them.

If they don't turn out and Le Pen does get in, who's fault do you think it will be and what lessons might be learned?

It is always the fault of the electorate. Nobody likes him anymore, with reason, but back in the day a young Ken Livingstone, a nonentity elector, unhappy with wishy washy labour in London, got involved, got elected, and then took over. This was not a conspiracy of the UK's leading families, in cahoots with the Duke of Edinborough, freemansons and the M15.

And we all know what happened. To draw the sting out of the GLC and Mayor, Thatcher abolished them. She made her antidemocratic intentions clear.

And the electorate then had a chance to respond. And they voted her back in. The electorate.

As a consequence militant labour decided to have 'no compromise with the electorate'. That went well

Some years later, a young lawyer, fed up with labour's nineteenth century obsession with state ownership and the right to secondary picket got himself elected as leader and promptly changed the constitution, instantly making the party electable. Was this a triumph of Mr Tony's freemason-lead conspiracy of the rest of the nation's elite families in a bloodless coup, thwarting the will of the people yet again to maintain the powers that be in power? No. The electorate decided again.

The shitness of our leaders reflects the fickle disengaged shitness of the electors. Us. If Bre'r frog is left with a choice between a nazi and a weird middle aged toy-boy they have only themselves to blame for the choices on offer.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You do understand how likely it is that someone is related to one of around 200 human families if you go back far enough and concentrate on people from a certain region of the planet? A third cousin three times removed of a Krupp who happens to have a small business in Braintree isn't really likely to be running the world.

Also:



If this is secret how do you know about it? And, if you're certain of its existence, what's on it and how far back does it date? I'm not clear on how it's executed. Are you saying that a huge global event like Covid has been orchestrated and the very different responses globally to the pandemic are really set plays and not ill prepared governments panicking? Or are you saying that the almost certain changes in our voting intentions as a result of how it was dealt with will be ignored because the plan says Boris will be in for two terms and we poor saps are placing votes that will never actually be counted?

Or, is the plan really high level enough to be "control the media" in which case, the Chinese state media is controlled by their governments, not by a Rockerfeller, Russia is pretty much only showing RT, the BBC has a duty to neutrally report world news and, in any case, the internet allows for alternate information to be hosted.

Actually that's it, isn't it. Us Sheeple should look for alternative news sources and then the world will be saved.

I salute your indefatigability.

*cough* Illuminati *cough*

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Oh there's quite a few of them, a couple of hundred. The Morgans, Astors, Wallenbergs, Rockefellers and the Krupps to mention a few. Obviously not all their family members wear their names and it often takes a bit of genealogy to connect the dots.

Well?

 

[birthofanorange]

Well?

View attachment 146814

I was more partial to this, but I have no idea what the rum was like.

 

[Swansman]

You do understand how likely it is that someone is related to one of around 200 human families if you go back far enough and concentrate on people from a certain region of the planet? A third cousin three times removed of a Krupp who happens to have a small business in Braintree isn't really likely to be running the world.

Also:



If this is secret how do you know about it? And, if you're certain of its existence, what's on it and how far back does it date? I'm not clear on how it's executed. Are you saying that a huge global event like Covid has been orchestrated and the very different responses globally to the pandemic are really set plays and not ill prepared governments panicking? Or are you saying that the almost certain changes in our voting intentions as a result of how it was dealt with will be ignored because the plan says Boris will be in for two terms and we poor saps are placing votes that will never actually be counted?

Or, is the plan really high level enough to be "control the media" in which case, the Chinese state media is controlled by their governments, not by a Rockerfeller, Russia is pretty much only showing RT, the BBC has a duty to neutrally report world news and, in any case, the internet allows for alternate information to be hosted.

Actually that's it, isn't it. Us Sheeple should look for alternative news sources and then the world will be saved.

"Hidden" may be a better word than "secret", though not too much separates them.

How far back is a good question obviously. Some would say that it was some 5000 years ago when humans went from apparently walking around rather aimlessly for about 200 000 years to all of a sudden create objects and concepts that we still find remarkable in our times. Others may point towards different secret societies and fraternal organisations built around the same ancient myths (or realities).

As for the plan, yes most global events - including covid - are orchestrated. The individual short-term responses such as "you should all be wearing face masks" doesnt matter, the key is in what the long term consequences are. The most easily spotted when it comes to Covid is the massive increase in state debt that you can see in pretty much every significant country - debts that decrease the sovereignty of the nations and their people. Those who are indebted are not free.

Saving the world? From what? It doesnt need to be saved, it is in the safest hands you can (or cant) imagine and even if you wouldnt like those hands, there is nothing you or I can do to change it. The end station is total control, which will at that point feel as a relief and the only good solution, and we just need a bit more chaos and destruction before we get there.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Wow.

"Hidden" may be a better word than "secret", though not too much separates them.

That's semantics. I asked how you know for sure. You've not told me.

As for the plan, yes most global events - including covid - are orchestrated. The individual short-term responses such as "you should all be wearing face masks" doesnt matter, the key is in what the long term consequences are. The most easily spotted when it comes to Covid is the massive increase in state debt that you can see in pretty much every significant country - debts that decrease the sovereignty of the nations and their people. Those who are indebted are not free.

So, if I'm reading this correctly, Covid was orchestrated by "them" so that the Sovereign nations and governments that they put in place would owe them more money, even though they were essentially paying themselves since they run and control those governments. And, unlike, say, the War in Ukraine where you can just not go to Ukraine, or 9/11 where you can avoid flying for a while, "they" were happy to put their own families at risk of a virus whose mortality rate and target was reasonably arbitrary at the start, putting "them" and their families (and here I hark back to the entire extended members of 200 families being, let's call it, shitloads of people) at risk of death. Unless, of course they'd already had the vaccine, a vaccine that you've said yourself you don't believe in. So, putting at risk all the people who know about this but don't say anything about it (including here Boris Johnson who nearly died of Covdi) so that they could borrow more money from themselves.



I tell you what, you'd make a great script writer. You could take some bog standard Dan Brown shit and really sex it up, maybe with a side character of a football coach who believed in being really, really nice to people and stuff. Just make sure they keep feeding you the high grade

 

[Iggle Piggle]

As for the plan, yes most global events - including covid - are orchestrated. The individual short-term responses such as "you should all be wearing face masks" doesnt matter, the key is in what the long term consequences are. The most easily spotted when it comes to Covid is the massive increase in state debt that you can see in pretty much every significant country - debts that decrease the sovereignty of the nations and their people. Those who are indebted are not free.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kUwzOIOl00