Tyrone Biggums
Well-known member
Kingston Town was the greatest miler ever in the history of horse racing. Big call yes, But he blew top class fields away consistently for years.
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Frankel, did you see that ?
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Kingston Town was the greatest miler ever in the history of horse racing. Big call yes, But he blew top class fields away consistently for years.
keithbeaky
New member
- Dec 26, 2011
- 472
Tyrone Biggums
Well-known member
So as I asked, does he ever race around bends in big fields?
It's harder to win in big fields when there are multiple bends.
It's harder to win in big fields when there are multiple bends.
keithbeaky
New member
- Dec 26, 2011
- 472
Have you seen his fractions in races? He has posted more 140+ performances than any horse in the history of racing.
The trouble with saying horses are top class, is that they might be but then Frankel is a freak compared to them. Excelebration has won G1's and will win more G1's over 1m this year. I think he's only been beaten by Frankel since his debut as a 2yo and has beaten G3/2 horses with real ease. In any other generation of racing Excelebration would be classed as a top miler(1600m). Frankel has clocked times quicker than Group races over 6f ran on the same day at the same track. His fractions yesterday are ridiculous, forget the pacemaker he did the last 2f quicker than they did in the Kings Stand.
The Sussex is run on a bend. Yes he only faced 3 rivals but Canford Cliffs was again THE champion miler and he was simply blown away. Connections said after he didn't handle the track but it made little difference and Frankel had hardly had a race. Canford Cliffs was then retired as they knew Frankel would always beat him. Frankel has blown away top class fields and will do so all this year. He is the greatest horse of all time, let alone greatest miler.
You should enjoy how good he is rather than compare him to horses that wouldn't get within 10 lengths of him.
The trouble with saying horses are top class, is that they might be but then Frankel is a freak compared to them. Excelebration has won G1's and will win more G1's over 1m this year. I think he's only been beaten by Frankel since his debut as a 2yo and has beaten G3/2 horses with real ease. In any other generation of racing Excelebration would be classed as a top miler(1600m). Frankel has clocked times quicker than Group races over 6f ran on the same day at the same track. His fractions yesterday are ridiculous, forget the pacemaker he did the last 2f quicker than they did in the Kings Stand.
The Sussex is run on a bend. Yes he only faced 3 rivals but Canford Cliffs was again THE champion miler and he was simply blown away. Connections said after he didn't handle the track but it made little difference and Frankel had hardly had a race. Canford Cliffs was then retired as they knew Frankel would always beat him. Frankel has blown away top class fields and will do so all this year. He is the greatest horse of all time, let alone greatest miler.
You should enjoy how good he is rather than compare him to horses that wouldn't get within 10 lengths of him.
keithbeaky
New member
- Dec 26, 2011
- 472
He will do in August and October but I doubt many will turn up against him.
Also what do you class as harder? On a straight mile you have no excuses or hard luck stories. This years classics in France on bends were a complete joke and produced false results. The best horses did not win, thats not the best thing for racing.
How many turn up against Black Caviar?
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Ernest
Stupid IDIOT
Trouble is now that there is no opposition over a mile, Excelebration is done with and he is the best of the rest at the moment. Camelot won't race over a mile again and if Most Improved is the best 3YO miler this year that won't get to 10 lengths of Frankel.
keithbeaky
New member
- Dec 26, 2011
- 472
I've no doubt that Most Improved is one of the best from yesterday but with the sad loss of The Nile having an impact on the race its hard to evaluate it properly. I dont think they are a great bunch to be honest. Power is a much better example of horses NEEDING a pacemaker.
Ernest
Stupid IDIOT
I would like to see Frankel drop back in trip rather than go up in trip, win the July Cup at Newmarket for starters
Tyrone Biggums
Well-known member
I'm not arguing for Black Caviar. In my opinion she's actually been racing against a fairly weak sprint crop compared to the depth of years gone past over here.
Her record while containing a lot of wins in a row doesn't inspire me like some of the past great sprinters we have had over the years who beat stronger fields on their path to immortality.
I just think those time ratings are a shower of biased shit and I couldn't care less how they rank horses. Times mean little when you have a pacemaker set the pace for you and you have clear running the whole way.
Watching a horse win a Group One coming from 10-15 lengths off the leader nearing the turn in a big field does more for me as a racing fan than watching a horse have the pace set for him in a small field. That's just my preference.
Ernest
Stupid IDIOT
I'd far rather watch the Cheltenham Gold Cup than any race at Royal Ascot but I can still appreciate an exceptional horse when I see it
Tyrone Biggums
Well-known member
Don't be so over the top. Kingston Town at his absolute best was every bit as devastating a horse as Frankel appears to be.
Tyrone Biggums
Well-known member
No doubt he's exceptional as is Black Caviar. But no way i'd rate either of them the greatest ever at their pet distances.
Ernest
Stupid IDIOT
Black Caviar has his test on Saturday, a lot riding on that race now
keithbeaky
New member
- Dec 26, 2011
- 472
Well it will be interesting to see how she goes. This is an average year for our 6f sprinters. They are pretty good but not top class.
The fractions im talking about show Frankel can run at that pace for the whole race. I agree that course records dont necessarily determine the best horses, as course and race records show. I tried to point this out to someone on here recently. What I will say is that Frankel's performance in last years Guineas was breathtaking, you must agree? Im not sure how much the pacemaker did yesterday and Frankel was very close to the course record which was set on fast ground. That you can compare.
I also agree with your last point. Though yesterdays race wasn't a small field? I think the Group 1 handicaps are unique in Australia. If Frankel did run in the Doncaster what weight would he and the other horses carry?
I have enjoyed our discussion.
Tyrone Biggums
Well-known member
It's a she
And I don't think there's anything riding on it. Even if she wins it I'm not sure what it proves. It's old news that Australia produces better sprinters and England produces better stayers.
Ernest
Stupid IDIOT
It's a she
And I don't think there's anything riding on it. Even if she wins it I'm not sure what it proves. It's old news that Australia produces better sprinters and England produces better stayers.
Will be a massive bursting of the bubble if SHE gets beat
Tyrone Biggums
Well-known member
Well Frankel as a 4 year old wouldn't carry much weight probably somewhere in the 54-56kg mark. It's all about the barriers though. If he drew barrier 20 and had to be used up to get near the lead he'd be either out wide or a sitting shot leading or outside the leader.
Speed is a great thing in a horse, but often when high speed horses get surrounded by big fields and a lot of pressure being put on them during the race they can and do often puncture. Winning races in big handicap fields requires a lot of guts and heart from the animal as well when they get seriously challenged.
I'd love to see him out here to race in something like the Cox Plate. That's a race full of the absolute best going around here and NZ at that time of the year at 2000m. IMO I think that race would be the best race to show his brilliance.
Normal Rob
Well-known member
It's a she
And I don't think there's anything riding on it. Even if she wins it I'm not sure what it proves. It's old news that Australia produces better sprinters and England produces better stayers.
agreed - it is old news. No longer current, or correct.
Tyrone Biggums
Well-known member
The trainer doesn't think so. As he said it's more media driven. If she runs 2nd or 3rd it doesn't really change much for him, the horse or her racing schedule.
I kind of hope she does get beaten so they shut up about her