FPC Snipers Are Off Again?!

[Easy 10]

I want to shelter against the elements tomorrow at Withdean in Lord B's vast underpants. I'm sure I'll be safe and warm.

 

[Timbo]

Interestingly (for me, anyway), I was standing at a bus stop in central Brighton this afternoon. After a pleasant chat with young Mr Mendoza, I took to musing about an issue that had pre-occupied me for twenty-odd years of my career as a public transport planner.

Way back in the 1980s, all us professionals said that the way for bus ticketing to develop was to eliminate cash transactions on the vehicle. This would cut queuing times, speed up travel and make it much more attractive to use public transport. More people would then want to use buses.

"Oh no, it can't be done" was the gloomy prognostication of many. "People WANT to be able to turn up and just pay cash for their ticket".

This afternoon, outside Marks and Spencers, I counted 25 people boarding the number 12 bus to Newhaven and Eastbourne. Precisely TWO passengers bought a ticket. Everyone else had a quick and easy CASHLESS encounter with the bus driver. The bus was loaded very quickly - exactly as, back in the eighties, we only dreamt might be possible.

And bus ridership in Brighton has increased by 30 per cent in the last five years.




Cashless ticketing at a modern football stadium IS the way to go.

So where did these people get their tickets from then? Did they buy their bus tickets with their mobile phone? Or a swipe card? Or, as I suspect, as they were getting on a bus to leave the city centre, they had bought a return with cash earlier on. You are implying that nobody can pay cash on a bus anymore!

Bus travel has increased in Brighton because it is a good cheap alternative to a lack of parking, extortionate NCP's, a car free city centre and a whole system geared up against car travel.

 

[Timbo]

If you are talking to your cash-obsessed mates at 12 noon, why can't they give YOU their cash and get YOU to use YOUR mobile phone or smart card to order them a ticket? You can then sit next to them.

This is BETTER than any queue at the gate system for an all-seater ground.

What if I don't have a smart card or fancy mobile phone either? Since giving up on Withdean I've got involved with a local football team and if one of our games is called off we normally go and watch another local game. Sometimes there can be 10 or more of us. Even if I had bothered with a swipe card why would I want to put about £300 on my debit card?

As I said, todays society are ridiculously lazy. They will not bother with anything remotely confusing. Bar codes on mobile phones and pre paid swipe cards are a disaster. Plenty of people here can see the problem with this, as the steward says, even the club are aware this could be a problem? Why will you never see any wrong in anything the club do?

 

[Timbo]

About 18 months ago I managed to get to see Atletico Madrid -v- Sevilla at short notice without any trouble. And they have a cashless book-in-advance ticketing system.

Most people pick up their tickets from ATMs that are located all over the city (which is, of course, how most of us get hold of the ten pound notes that Timbo thinks are VITAL to the match admission process).

Athletico Madrid vs Sevilla is one thing Brighton vs Cheltenham on a Tuesday night is another. Do you know that Athletico Madrid fans all think its great to pick up tickets from ATM's all over the city.

About 18 months ago I went to Aston Villa where I turned up and paid cash to get into the Holte End. What is the reason we cannot do this at Falmer?

 

[dougdeep]

About 18 months ago I went to Aston Villa where I turned up and paid cash to get into the Holte End. What is the reason we cannot do this at Falmer?

Parking and travel, you can't have 20,000 cars arriving at once.

 

[Yorkie]

As I said, todays society are ridiculously lazy. They will not bother with anything remotely confusing. Bar codes on mobile phones and pre paid swipe cards are a disaster. Plenty of people here can see the problem with this, as the steward says, even the club are aware this could be a problem? Why will you never see any wrong in anything the club do?

Leeds last gate 20,257 against Cheltenham. They have bar code readers not cash turnstiles.
Are you saying Southerners are lazier than Yorkshiremen?

 

[The Clown of Pevensey Bay]

As I said, todays society are ridiculously lazy. They will not bother with anything remotely confusing. Bar codes on mobile phones and pre paid swipe cards are a disaster.

That's why FIVE MILLION Londoners currently use Oystercards on Tubes and buses, then, is it?

 

[Timbo]

That's why FIVE MILLION Londoners currently use Oystercards on Tubes and buses, then, is it?

Five million Londoners HAVE to use the tube and buses. People don't have to go to football.

 

[Timbo]

Leeds last gate 20,257 against Cheltenham. They have bar code readers not cash turnstiles.
Are you saying Southerners are lazier than Yorkshiremen?

You can pay cash for a ticket at Elland Road. You just have to buy it from the ticket office then walk to the turnstile. Leeds also have a far bigger fan base than us. It's ok installing these things at clubs that can attract big crowds, not somewhere that is desparate for every fan and every penny.

It has been proved that having to mess around getting tickets puts people off, hence a couple of crowds just over 4000 a while ago. Bar codes and swipe cards are not going to make things better.

 

[Yorkie]

There will be a club shop in the stadium. I am presuming that people will still be able to call in up to kick off time?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Parking and travel, you can't have 20,000 cars arriving at once.

Whats parking and travel got to do with paying on the gate doug?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Whats parking and travel got to do with paying on the gate doug?

Condition 46 of the Planning Permission:-

The Stadium shall not be brought into use unless and until a Travel
Management Plan prepared in consultation with the Travel
Management Group has been submitted to and approved in writing by
the Local Planning Authority.

The Travel Management Plan shall include details of:

1. Match ticket sales points;
2. Provision of Transport Voucher or equivalent and journeys/modes
to be covered by the same;
3. Capacity location management and operational arrangements of
Park and Ride sites and the Bus and Coach Park;
4. Provision of Signage directing vehicles, pedestrians and cyclists to
Stadium and Parking;
5. Public Transport arrangements to be provided including (but not
limited to) addition public transport capacity on Event Days;
6. A Parking Management Strategy for the Controlled Parking Zone as
defined in Condition 48 below;
7. Methodology for assessment of additional traffic impacts;
8. Publicity arrangements in respect of parking restrictions in the
vicinity of the Stadium including (but not limited to) restrictions on
parking on the Falmer Campus of the University of Brighton in
Falmer Village and in Stanmer Park and the use of non-car travel
modes (to include away supporters);
9. Pedestrian routing to and from the Stadium;
10. Management of Pedestrian Routes;
11. An Information Strategy for publicity of travel details and advice of
spectator behaviour;
12. Mechanism for monitoring and review of the Travel Management
Plan;

No event with an anticipated attendance of 500 or more shall take
place at the Stadium other than in accordance with the Travel
Management Plan or such separate Travel Management Plan as shall
have been submitted to and approved in writing by the Local Planning
Authority specific to that Event.

 

[dougdeep]

Whats parking and travel got to do with paying on the gate doug?

See above. Less people will use public transport if they have to pay for it.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

What if I don't have a smart card or fancy mobile phone either?

At least one of the smart card systems that is being developed for stadium ticketing management is designed to allow ALL tickets to be issued as coded smart cards, even tickets issued as a one-off to away supporters. Once you have your code, you use it for future cashless purchases.

It's even possible that you could get a re-usable top-upable smart card issued to you by another football club. In the fullness of time, the answer to your question could very well be that you will have one, once you have attended ANY football match ANYWHERE.

The Italian authorities managed to impose smart card ticketing on senior clubs by the simple expedient of responding to the death of one fan in Rome last season and immediately shutting down all senior football until Clubs changed their ticketing systems to meet the required smart card standard. Three quarters of Serie A clubs managed to introduce the system in just over a week. It's not complicated.

And don't forget another aspect of the cashless stadium ... you'll be using your smart card to buy pre-match beer and a half-time pie.

 

[ROSM]

However EASY it does turn out to buy tickets at the ground is neither here nor there.

What is important is the PERCEPTION of how easy it is.

A lot of people with a far more casual interest in the albion will be put off by the card / phone issue of buying a ticket purely because they can't be arsed with it.

Similar to the fact that many fans have got used to not being able to get tickets for Withdean when we were half decent and have the perception tickets have still been hard to get over the last season or so and not bothered.

Probably the most accurate thing ever written by Richie. Perception is everything. In many cases, perception is governed by the comments made by 'informed sources' like journalists or other 'customers'. Therefore if people keep going on about how Martin Perry is a charlatan and is only stringing this out for his own end, and how they are going cap in hand to the lottery unexpectedly, then people will perceive this to be true unless a contra opinion corrects them by providing evidence and balance.

Therefore, this underlines my view that the constant whinging about withdean, the team, the club, the board, the potential for the new stadium etc, actually have a greater impact than the reality. In effect, it is threads like this where any attempt to put reasonable counter arguments is met with hysteria and abuse that actually are more likely to cause falling crowds than anything that is ACTUALLY happening.

 

[Yorkie]

And don't forget another aspect of the cashless stadium ... you'll be using your smart card to buy pre-match beer and a half-time pie.

Oohhh, now you've upset him.

 

[dougdeep]

...you'll be using your smart card to buy pre-match beer and a half-time pie.

It's your round Ed.

 

[Yorkie]

Therefore, this underlines my view that the constant whinging about withdean, the team, the club, the board, the potential for the new stadium etc, actually have a greater impact than the reality. In effect, it is threads like this where any attempt to put reasonable counter arguments is met with hysteria and abuse that actually are more likely to cause falling crowds than anything that is ACTUALLY happening.

Abso-bloody-lutely !!!!!!!!

 

[Lord Bracknell]

See above. Less people will use public transport if they have to pay for it.

The voucher system isn't just a way of pre-paying for public transport. It will be a way of pre-paying for parking. There are unlikely to be pay on the gate carparks. And there won't be any free parking near the ground.

Withdean parking restrictions are "voluntary". It's not actually illegal to park in the surrounding streets. It will be illegal to park in the streets and roads around Falmer.

 

[ROSM]

The voucher system isn't just a way of pre-paying for public transport. It will be a way of pre-paying for parking. There are unlikely to be pay on the gate carparks. And there won't be any free parking near the ground.

Withdean parking restrictions are "voluntary". It's not actually illegal to park in the surrounding streets. It will be illegal to park in the streets and roads around Falmer.

And that's Martin Perry's fault. he's only doing this to make MONEY out of the parking scheme. I'm sure it will be run by MCP (Martin Charlatan Perry) and will be a gestapo state.

I told you he was a fraud!