Four Month Shadow Cabinet Reshuffle

[ROSM]

That's a shame - I stayed a member under many leaderships I disagreed with strongly. Given the collapse of the Liberal Democrats and the humiliation of Kendall, the centrist politics you subscribe to wouldn't even win parish council elections these days. You should think again - the new members flooding into the party are decent people and you should check the ego at the door and work with them

And that is one of my points. I'm not a centrist I am a socialist and the labels that are being thrown about because someone disagrees with the cult of corbyn are the reason I'm offski

The egos aren't with the members who worked to get a labour party elected at the last 6 elections.

 

[London Irish]

And that is one of my points. I'm not a centrist I am a socialist and the labels that are being thrown about because someone disagrees with the cult of corbyn are the reason I'm offski

The egos aren't with the members who worked to get a labour party elected at the last 6 elections.

Well that's even worse. Almost certainly the views you voted for are strongly represented in the shadow cabinet. No reason at all for that NSC f word then.

Cult of Corbyn - that dismisses hundreds of thousands of people there who each have their own story. Are some of the Corbynistas too zealous and evangelical, yup - but that's passion that will be tempered when they get stuck in over the next 5 years. If you are as well connected as you claim, you will know the team around Corbyn are very pragmatic people and want to work with everyone

 

[London Irish]

Very interesting piece here about how Corbyn's authority has been strengthened by the reshuffle - and the Statesman is not sympathetic to Corbyn at all

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/01/ken-livingstone-calls-shadow-cabinets-bluff

 

[glasfryn]

Thought the tax credit U Turn was mainly down to the Lords defeat (Lib Dem peers swung the vote) plus nervous Tory backbenchers. The Saudi Arabia decision was more a Gove Theresa May turf war and the Police funding announcement was as much a surprise to Labour as anyone.

Of course you might be right and Corbyn's excellent leadership has had the government reeling which is why they are doing so badly in the polls ...

it was down to the 27b they had tucked around the corner that the chansellor claimed he did not know about
nervous tory backbenchers .............and so they should be

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

the team around Corbyn are very pragmatic people and want to work with everyone

Really?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Osborne has increased the deficit more than every single Labour government in history put together. Try again

Remind me who passed on that £150Bn debt in 2010?

As Corbyn voted against every major piece of legislation introduced to cut public spending it's a bit hypocritical complaining about the size of the deficit.

As I said no economic credibility.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I love that graph. If I apply a similar extrapolation into the future with my salary, I'll be a fecking millionaire by 2020

View attachment 71235

Remind me who passed on that £150Bn debt in 2010?

As Corbyn voted against every major piece of legislation introduced to cut public spending it's a bit hypocritical complaining about the size of the deficit.

As I said no economic credibility.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I love that graph. If I apply a similar extrapolation into the future with my salary, I'll be a fecking millionaire by 2020

I'll get a poster size one made so you can put it on your wall at home. It might give you pause for thought every time you go out to vote

 

[cunning fergus]

Are you kidding? Dredging up an article from 9 years about a property her husband bought perfectly legally? WTF is scandalous about it? Do you even know what that word means?

If this is the best smear job you can do on her, I reckon Emily will be just fine

It's not a smear, this is a football message board with a thread on the reshuffle.

As an individual with socialist sympathies it pains me to see multi millionaire, privileged, establishment soaked landlord Tories like Lady Nugee get a free pass on to the Labour Party front bench.

She is there despite her lack of socialism, because Corbyn ultimately prefers a policy of unilateralism to socialism. That is a suicidal policy for the Labour Party.

If you don't think Labour MPs (or their partners) buying social housing to rent out is a scandal I can't help you.

I suspect like Lady Nugee you are really a Tory.............you are no socialist.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I'll get a poster size one made so you can put it on your wall at home. It might give you pause for thought every time you go out to vote

I don't vote based on such projected statistics. Crikey, if I projected our points total based on results up to but not including the Boro game, I'd have been off down the bookies betting on an unbeaten season and a 20 point gap between us and the second place team come May To me that graph points to a bottoming out followed by anyone's guess.

Also, what about the public spending cuts that account for the fall so far? From your photo, you look like a young fit lad with little use for the NHS, but a bit too old for school, so maybe the cuts haven't affected you (yet).

I'm not questioning your politics, by the way, to which you are perfectly entitled (and I am certainly not optimistic that any hypothetical Jezza government would generate an economic paradise - lol!) - just your mathematical optimism.

I may have quoted this several times over the years on here, for different amusing reasons, but its worth wheeling out again:

To paraphrase Mark Twain, the location of Niagra Falls changes, as it erodes the land northwards at a rate of more than a yard a year. It takes little time, therefore, to calculate, by extrapolation, that in the year 1066, Niagra Falls was located in the heart of Texas. This is an example of 'an enormous return in speculation from a small investment of fact'

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I don't vote based on such projected statistics. Crikey, if I projected our points total based on results up to but not including the Boro game, I'd have been off down the bookies betting on an unbeaten season and a 20 point gap between us and the second place team come May To me that graph points to a bottoming out followed by anyone's guess.

Also, what about the public spending cuts that account for the fall so far? From your photo, you look like a young fit lad with little use for the NHS, but a bit too old for school, so maybe the cuts haven't affected you (yet).

I'm not questioning your politics, by the way, to which you are perfectly entitled (and I am certainly not optimistic that any hypothetical Jezza government would generate an economic paradise - lol!) - just your mathematical optimism.

I may have quoted this several times over the years on here, for different amusing reasons, but its worth wheeling out again:

To paraphrase Mark Twain, the location of Niagra Falls changes, as it erodes the land northwards at a rate of more than a yard a year. It takes little time, therefore, to calculate, by extrapolation, that in the year 1066, Niagra Falls was located in the heart of Texas. This is an example of 'an enormous return in speculation from a small investment of fact'

No no no I mean't you could look at the chart to remind you of all Osborne's missed deficit reduction targets (the dark blue factual section). His initial aim was to eradicate it by 2015.

Saying that inheriting vast debts and economic chaos from outgoing Labour governments does seem to be a recurring problem.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

No no no I mean't you could look at the chart to remind you of all Osborne's missed deficit reduction targets (the dark blue factual section). His initial aim was to eradicate it by 2015.

Saying that inheriting vast debts and economic chaos from outgoing Labour governments does seem to be a recurring problem.

Yeah, your last point is correct. Presumably the fact that Brown had done a great job with the economy at the end of TB's first and second terms was why the first and second TB governments were not 'outgoing' for the party. Does this mean that the electorate boot labour out only when they run up a defecit? This is perhaps going well OT, but it does interest me what provokes the swing voter to change his/her choice. Why do the tories get booted out? If its isn't the economy, it has to be something else. Cheers.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Yeah, your last point is correct. Presumably the fact that Brown had done a great job with the economy at the end of TB's first and second terms was why the first and second TB governments were not 'outgoing' for the party. Does this mean that the electorate boot labour out only when they run up a defecit? This is perhaps going well OT, but it does interest me what provokes the swing voter to change his/her choice. Why do the tories get booted out? If its isn't the economy, it has to be something else. Cheers.

Good old fashioned self interest usually of the economic variety.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Good old fashioned self interest usually of the economic variety.

Good point, but it is a very inexact science.

It seems to me that the reason for swing voters changing sides varies in a very idiosyncratic way. I think Labour lost power because of Brown and his freakish false smile for the camera. He came across as bonkers and cringeworthy. The fact that the economy was about to go tits up was not that widely recognised. The last time the tories got booted out, it was largely because they had gone through a period of being utterly contemptible. At the arse end of the Major years, you had ministers spouting on about family values, and financial prudence, while they or their colleagues were bouncing up and down on 17 year old interns, and engaging in tax dodging. The economy wasn't conspicuously bad. The previous labour government lost because of the 'winter of discontent' (public sector strikes led by mad trade unionists). Yet if they had gone to the people in the previous autumn they would have likely won. Before that, Heath lost it for exactly the same reason (public sector strikes led by mad Arthur Scargill, resulting in no coal and the 3 day week). Hardly Heath's fault. It really is a bit of a beauty contest, if you ask me, as far as the swing voters are concerned. All the best.

 

[Eastleigh Seagull]

And lets look at a brief biography of Corbyn's closest aide

The younger son of former BBC Director General Alasdair Milne, Milne attended Winchester College and read Philosophy, Politics and Economics at Balliol College, Oxford

Like Corbyn and his 'consensual' leadership style (as long as you agree with him of course) they are just a bunch of steaming hypocrites

It's not a smear, this is a football message board with a thread on the reshuffle.

As an individual with socialist sympathies it pains me to see multi millionaire, privileged, establishment soaked landlord Tories like Lady Nugee get a free pass on to the Labour Party front bench.

She is there despite her lack of socialism, because Corbyn ultimately prefers a policy of unilateralism to socialism. That is a suicidal policy for the Labour Party.

If you don't think Labour MPs (or their partners) buying social housing to rent out is a scandal I can't help you.

I suspect like Lady Nugee you are really a Tory.............you are no socialist.

 

[London Irish]

It's not a smear, this is a football message board with a thread on the reshuffle.

As an individual with socialist sympathies it pains me to see multi millionaire, privileged, establishment soaked landlord Tories like Lady Nugee get a free pass on to the Labour Party front bench.

She is there despite her lack of socialism, because Corbyn ultimately prefers a policy of unilateralism to socialism. That is a suicidal policy for the Labour Party.

If you don't think Labour MPs (or their partners) buying social housing to rent out is a scandal I can't help you.

I suspect like Lady Nugee you are really a Tory.............you are no socialist.

ha ha ha

#YouAin'tNoSocialistBruv

 

[London Irish]

View attachment 71235

Remind me who passed on that £150Bn debt in 2010?

As Corbyn voted against every major piece of legislation introduced to cut public spending it's a bit hypocritical complaining about the size of the deficit.

As I said no economic credibility.

You are making an utterly economically illiterate point - so typical of a Tory, the stupid party after all.

Borrowing is only a small factor in whether governments pile up huge debt - much more important is how much you spend, how much you raise in revenues and how much you bloody well grow the economy - and of course the Tories have just presided over the slowest recovery from recession in all of British history.

Here's the correct chart on the amount of debt the Tories have racked up- and it's from Fraser Nelson at the Spectator, that well-known lefty.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/files/2013/11/Screen-Shot-2013-11-21-at-14.41.361.png

The media in this country don't promote a serious debate about economic credibility because they know the Tories would fall down at every level. The Tories don't raise enough revenue because they let their mates in the big corporations off the hook on tax avoidance (these same corporate interests fund the Tories so no surprise there). Much of their spending is wasteful because Tory economic growth levels are so appalling they have to fund extra welfare because everyone is so ****ing poor.

The Tories have no strategy at all on investment - because they are deluded in thinking the free market takes care of that. This is the single biggest thing Corbyn and McDonnell will change - see here http://socialisteconomicbulletin.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/why-borrowing-for-investment-is-correct.html

Osborne's record on the economy is an absolute disaster - but good thing his mates who own the newspapers will never tell you that, right?

Unfortunately you can't fool all the people all the time - as the Tories will find out

 

[ForestRowSeagull]

You are making an utterly economically illiterate point - so typical of a Tory, the stupid party after all.

Borrowing is only a small factor in whether governments pile up huge debt - much more important is how much you spend, how much you raise in revenues and how much you bloody well grow the economy - and of course the Tories have just presided over the slowest recovery from recession in all of British history.

Here's the correct chart on the amount of debt the Tories have racked up- and it's from Fraser Nelson at the Spectator, that well-known lefty.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/files/2013/11/Screen-Shot-2013-11-21-at-14.41.361.png

The media in this country don't promote a serious debate about economic credibility because they know the Tories would fall down at every level. The Tories don't raise enough revenue because they let their mates in the big corporations off the hook on tax avoidance (these same corporate interests fund the Tories so no surprise there). Much of their spending is wasteful because Tory economic growth levels are so appalling they have to fund extra welfare because everyone is so ****ing poor.

The Tories have no strategy at all on investment - because they are deluded in thinking the free market takes care of that. This is the single biggest thing Corbyn and McDonnell will change - see here http://socialisteconomicbulletin.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/why-borrowing-for-investment-is-correct.html

Osborne's record on the economy is an absolute disaster - but good thing his mates who own the newspapers will never tell you that, right?

Unfortunately you can't fool all the people all the time - as the Tories will find out

Your graphs are showing exactly the same thing as JC Footy Genius', only yours is debt and his PSNB. What JCFG is arguing is that debt is being added to at a slower rate (seen by the decrease in the gradient of your chart). You also note that borrowing is only makes up a small amount of debt; do you know what the NET in public sector net borrowing means?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

You are making an utterly economically illiterate point - so typical of a Tory, the stupid party after all.

Borrowing is only a small factor in whether governments pile up huge debt - much more important is how much you spend, how much you raise in revenues and how much you bloody well grow the economy - and of course the Tories have just presided over the slowest recovery from recession in all of British history.

Here's the correct chart on the amount of debt the Tories have racked up- and it's from Fraser Nelson at the Spectator, that well-known lefty.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/files/2013/11/Screen-Shot-2013-11-21-at-14.41.361.png

The media in this country don't promote a serious debate about economic credibility because they know the Tories would fall down at every level. The Tories don't raise enough revenue because they let their mates in the big corporations off the hook on tax avoidance (these same corporate interests fund the Tories so no surprise there). Much of their spending is wasteful because Tory economic growth levels are so appalling they have to fund extra welfare because everyone is so ****ing poor.

The Tories have no strategy at all on investment - because they are deluded in thinking the free market takes care of that. This is the single biggest thing Corbyn and McDonnell will change - see here http://socialisteconomicbulletin.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/why-borrowing-for-investment-is-correct.html

Osborne's record on the economy is an absolute disaster - but good thing his mates who own the newspapers will never tell you that, right?

Unfortunately you can't fool all the people all the time - as the Tories will find out

The answer to my question was Labour.

Being lectured about economic illiteracy by a Corbynista Socialist is a bit like listening to a speech about good bedside manner by Harold Shipman.

As for the rest of it, media conspiracy yada yada blinkered self delusion.

How many election defeats will it take to convince you that your wrong?

 

[beorhthelm]

You are making an utterly economically illiterate point - so typical of a Tory, the stupid party after all.

from someone who earlier showed confusion between debt and deficit, thats a bit rich. to remind you:

Osborne has increased the deficit more than every single Labour government in history put together. Try again

every time some highlights the increased debt in the past 6 years, all they are doing is show how little Osborne has cut, and how much the largess of the previous Labour government has burdened us with.