[Football] "Football is never meant to be like this"

[GT49er]

Has anyone else noticed the general split between armchair ‘fans’ and people who actually go to games on VAR? I have friends who are armchair premier league fans and think VAR is great with all the ‘drama’ it creates. But they’ve never sat in a stadium wondering what the hell is going on for 6 minutes after they’ve celebrated a goal.

Totally disagree - think your friends are the odd ones out. Armchair fan here - and I hate VAR! Don't know anybody who does like it, TBH.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Rubbish, I see no stats for that. It's all perception. ALL clubs have had poor VAR decisions but it was far worse pre-VAR when there was no check possible.

If VAR was dropped now, you know exactly what would happen. We’d be back to having far worse decisions being made, with a chorus of "VAR would have spotted that". The issue is the frequency of VAR usage, and the length of time it takes. Sort those things out and we’re fine. Let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water.

It's not the sort of thing which is measurable statisitically as there are too many other variables.

I'm not sure there would be worse decisions. VAR has come in and made wrong, perfectly good decisions, such as Estupinan v Palace.

Even if it does, make better decisions in some instances, I as a paying fan think the trade off isn't worth it. I'd would far prefer an honest decision reached straight away than the sort of poring over mm which saw Dunky's screamer at the weekend chalked off, MacAllister's thunderbolt last season taken away. And generally led to a dulling of goal celebrations as cycnicism creeps in. I think i'm very much in the majority of paying fans on this matter as well.

My view on the way forward. Let's keep VAR for the rest of the season. Let's turn it off entirely for all of next season.

For the seasons to come, lets then have a conversation, and maybe even some sort of democratic exericse, as which approach we prefer.

 

[Brok]

It is turning the game and atmosphere to shit.

Quite right Mike, it is.
But will those in charge admit it is? No.
Will they give it a break for a couple of years until it's better? No.
Will they doggedly carry on this shit? Yes, they will.

 

[Gazwag]

After decades of getting every decision going their way and if it doesn't abusing referees until the decision goes their way, I am having a nice chuckle at the demise of Utd

 

[Colonel Mustard]

It's not the sort of thing which is measurable statisitically as there are too many other variables.

Exactly. It's all perception, as I said.

I'm not sure there would be worse decisions. VAR has come in and made wrong, perfectly good decisions, such as Estupinan v Palace. Even if it does, make better decisions in some instances, I as a paying fan think the trade off isn't worth it. I'd would far prefer an honest decision reached straight away than the sort of poring over mm which saw Dunky's screamer at the weekend chalked off, MacAllister's thunderbolt last season taken away. And generally led to a dulling of goal celebrations as cycnicism creeps in. I think i'm very much in the majority of paying fans on this matter as well.

Far, far more correct decisions can be made with the benefit of multiple replays. You can't argue otherwise. The problem with VAR, as I said, is that it takes far too long and is used far too often. Thats's what's killing the game, it's not having the ability to review a contentious decision.

My view on the way forward. Let's keep VAR for the rest of the season. Let's turn it off entirely for all of next season.

For the seasons to come, lets then have a conversation, and maybe even some sort of democratic exericse, as which approach we prefer.

I presume we're beholden to UEFA and FIFA here but perhaps someone can confirm. The way forward is to retain the benefits of VAR but eliminate the downsides eg the delays -- which I think we agree on.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

After decades of getting every decision going their way and if it doesn't abusing referees until the decision goes their way, I am having a nice chuckle at the demise of Utd

And i've just been told there's no evidence for this. Well no, not if you never watch any football ever there isn't

 

[schmunk]

I think plenty of people would say the Newcastle goal WAS a bad VAR decision.
The ball out of play decision was quite possibly ok. The offside too. But a lot or people would have given the push on the defender as a foul, and said so as pundits and so on.

I agree with your analysis, and would also not have given the goal* but if we compare to e.g. cricket, where VAR/DRS is generally thought to be effective, once chalking off the black & white offences of offside and ball out of play, the decision would have gone back to "umpire's call" (as not clearly and obviously in error) so the goal would stand.





*especially not to that most punchable of footballers, but that's an aside...

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Exactly. It's all perception, as I said.

Far, far more correct decisions can be made with the benefit of multiple replays. You can't argue otherwise. The problem with VAR, as I said, is that it takes far too long and is used far too often. Thats's what's killing the game, it's not having the ability to review a contentious decision.

I presume we're beholden to UEFA and FIFA here but perhaps someone can confirm. The way forward is to retain the benefits of VAR but eliminate the downsides eg the delays -- which I think we agree on.

Well. I am arguing otherwise.

But it really doesn't matter. The point of football isn't to try to maximise the number of correct decisions. Football is about joy, sponaneity, wild uncontrolled joy when your team scores.

Let's just get decent officials, making honest decisions, just like you get in leagues around the world and up and down the country.

The only time the VAR decisions were obviously rushed was the Diaz one a few weeks ago, and they cocked it up, so your idea of having the best of both worlds is i'm afraid, not going to happen

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Totally disagree - think your friends are the odd ones out. Armchair fan here - and I hate VAR! Don't know anybody who does like it, TBH.

I hate VAR as an 'armchair' fan BECAUSE of the shitshow it is when I've been at the Amex, watching the game live wondering what the cock is going on! I totally get why people who don't go to games don't like it, but at least they get an informed opinion/view of what's going on.

As I've said many times before, it's not fit for purpose – it never has been.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Well. I am arguing otherwise.

But it really doesn't matter. The point of football isn't to try to maximise the number of correct decisions. Football is about joy, sponaneity, wild uncontrolled joy when your team scores.

Let's just get decent officials, making honest decisions, just like you get in leagues around the world and up and down the country.

The only time the VAR decisions were obviously rushed was the Diaz one a few weeks ago, and they cocked it up, so your idea of having the best of both worlds is i'm afraid, not going to happen

Do we have to choose? I'm quite keen on both.

People have v short memories about controversial refereeing pre VAR. This was supposed to be the great benefit of VAR. But it's very obvious that you get more right with VAR than without. It's the length of.time and disruption that are the worst aspects.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Plenty of people have opined that it wasn’t a foul. I listen to all the main podcasts for my sins, and most opinion seems to be against the goal being disallowed, and certainly against the Arteta rant.

And there is is the issue

Refs can't win, there are always going to be people annoyed.

 

[schmunk]

Do we have to choose? I'm quite keen on both.

People have v short memories about controversial refereeing pre VAR. This was supposed to be the great benefit of VAR. But it's very obvious that you get more right with VAR than without. It's the length of.time and disruption that are the worst aspects.

Indeed:

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Indeed:

VAR Review's complete: No foul, hand in natural position.
Goal stands.

 

[Durlston]

The football fans that enjoy watching VAR cock things up with the drama probably pulled the legs off crane flies when they were younger and then saw them suffer.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

I said before it even came in that I'd hate it. You could just see what was going to happen re offsides etc. What's the BEST moment in football? A goal. Many games have ONE goal. It's THE moment.

Now, instead of thinking "YES!!!! We've scored" I think "I think that's ok" or "hmmmm, he might have been slightly off". The JOY of a goal has literally been diluted for fear of seeing the replay and noticing an issue which is going to be picked up.

I think that's completely criminal.

It may not bother others as much but it has taken away a % of the joy I felt at football. The moment of scoring a goal used to be everything. Now it's a trigger for a bit of admin to check I am allowed to be happy.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Indeed:

VAR should only be used for things at this level.

It's being used way to much, if it has to stay it needs to be used 4/5 times a season

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Well. I am arguing otherwise.

But it really doesn't matter. The point of football isn't to try to maximise the number of correct decisions. Football is about joy, sponaneity, wild uncontrolled joy when your team scores.

Let's just get decent officials, making honest decisions, just like you get in leagues around the world and up and down the country.

The only time the VAR decisions were obviously rushed was the Diaz one a few weeks ago, and they cocked it up, so your idea of having the best of both worlds is i'm afraid, not going to happen

And why was it rushed? Because people moaning it took too long.

We've now gone back to taking longer and it it's too long again.

 

[Washie]

People talking about intent, a player goes in two footed and breaks a players leg. He didn't mean to do it as he was going for the ball and tried to reach it faster by jumping. Please tell me how that would not be a red card just because of "Intent"

 

[oldboyroy]

Heard some United fan on sports bar last night claiming they are being killed by Var. He talked about goal being disallowed against us for ball being out of play, when, it was same as Newcastles on Saturday so it should of stood. "That cost us 3 points" he said. Didn't we beat them 3-1 at O T so don't know where he got 3 points from

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

People talking about intent, a player goes in two footed and breaks a players leg. He didn't mean to do it as he was going for the ball and tried to reach it faster by jumping. Please tell me how that would not be a red card just because of "Intent"

In your example the ref, not being in the players brain, has got to look at it and infer the intent to commit serious foul play from the action. There still has to be sanction for the player acting recklessly, as in your example. He's gone for the ball, but not in a "normal" way.

Rashford, neither had any intent to hurt the player, nor was acting in a reckless way (or maybe better wording is, he didn't carry out any action which was not normal for the purposes of winning the ball)

The laws shouldn't have a situation where you can get a red for just trying to play normally and you catch someone you don't even see