[Football] "Football is never meant to be like this"

[Kinky Gerbil]

Do you think Rashford should’ve been dismissed? Under the modern law where intent doesn’t come into it, I think so.

Dale Stephens was famously sent off at Boro, for far, far less.

Yes, think so , it was a complete accident, but it was still dangerous and a red card in 2023

Certainly don't think you can have many complaints over it.

Saying that if he wasn't sent off I don't think it would have been incorrect either.

 

[beorhthelm]

thats a shocking decision for Rashford, i just dont understand what the ref thinks they see and why the still frame is taken over the live action. yes, a foul all day long but its not dangerous. if every contact like this is carded we may as well give up.

that said, utterly hilarious implosion from Man U.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

It should only be used to overrule clear and obvious errors. If you can't decide in 30 seconds then it isn't f***ing obvious. Simple

Agree with this.

My first preference would be to get rid of VAR totally.

If we have to keep it, it's scope should be dramatically limited. The ref should be able to request to re-look at any incident. He can take one view in real time, from the main camera. If it's not an obvious error, we stay with the on field decision. That way the Thierry Henry handball stuff, or the 5 yards offside stuff gets picked out. But the game isn't re reffed by someone at Heathrow.

I'm also not diametrically opposed to the opposition captain having one appeal per game, but it has to be asking for something specific and the ref must still conclude it's a clear and obvious error

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

The law is an ass.

Intent should come into it. Anyone who has played football will know that collisions happen and you can't spend the entire game with your boot below ankle height.

If there's no intention to endanger and there's no un-natural movement, or recklessness, there should be no serious foul play

Intention doesn't have to come into a player being sent off.

Most pros don't intend to hurt another pro when tackling.

 

[Weststander]

The law is an ass.

Intent should come into it. Anyone who has played football will know that collisions happen and you can't spend the entire game with your boot below ankle height.

If there's no intention to endanger and there's no un-natural movement, or recklessness, there should be no serious foul play

The obvious problem is that no one can mind read. Before this law snides such as Mings and Fellaini got away with studs ‘accidentally’ landing on players lying on the floor or repeated elbows into skulls.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

The obvious problem is that no one can mind read. Before this law snides such as Mings and Fellaini got away with studs ‘accidentally’ landing on players lying on the floor or repeated elbows into skulls.

Nobody can mind read, but most have a sense of what is a natural action in the course of competing for the ball. They key thing to look for is whether the offending player was looking at the player or the ball.

Serious sniding can also be dealt with retrospectively if needed.

I also think handball should be intention based. The one Man U got last night was ridiculous. (Man U got one like that against us a few seasons ago, Maupay I think). According to the law, both were handball. But the law was surely written by someone who has never kicked a ball? Jumping for the ball, you're going to raise your arms. It's totally natural, he player wasn't looking to stop the ball. It should be play on every time. The handball rule should also be based on intention, was your action a natural one in order to play the ball. Lewis Dunk against Luton is another good example. Why should someone get a 80% goal scoring chance, just because of a fluke hit like that?

If a player deliberately handles, or artificially makes their body bigger with intention to stop the ball, that's a handball. Otherwise, let's play on

 

[Weststander]

Nobody can mind read, but most have a sense of what is a natural action in the course of competing for the ball. They key thing to look for is whether the offending player was looking at the player or the ball.

Serious sniding can also be dealt with retrospectively if needed.

I also think handball should be intention based. The one Man U got last night was ridiculous. (Man U got one like that against us a few seasons ago, Maupay I think). According to the law, both were handball. But the law was surely written by someone who has never kicked a ball? Jumping for the ball, you're going to raise your arms. It's totally natural, he player wasn't looking to stop the ball. It should be play on every time. The handball rule should also be based on intention, was your action a natural one in order to play the ball. Lewis Dunk against Luton is another good example. Why should someone get a 80% goal scoring chance, just because of a fluke hit like that?

If a player deliberately handles, or artificially makes their body bigger with intention to stop the ball, that's a handball. Otherwise, let's play on

You’ll be surprised at the craftiness of the modern player, some don’t look at the victim before delivering the snide blow. I assume wised-up in an age of a dozen cameras at games.

Agree about too many pen handballs these days. But Albion fans are as bad as anyone else about that …. when balls ping at speed in the opposition box hitting a defender close by …. the mass whinging at games and micro analysis for two days afterwards on the conspiracy against us. I wonder if close by pens shouldn’t be given at all, unless a deliberate movement of the arm to ball or the arm is a long way from the body in a dumb manner (not needed for leverage, balance).

 

[Bodian]

The obvious problem is that no one can mind read. Before this law snides such as Mings and Fellaini got away with studs ‘accidentally’ landing on players lying on the floor or repeated elbows into skulls.

Joey Barton......

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

You’ll be surprised at the craftiness of the modern player, some don’t look at the victim before delivering the snide blow. I assume wised-up in an age of a dozen cameras at games.

Agree about too many pen handballs these days. But Albion fans are as bad as anyone else about that …. when balls ping at speed in the opposition box hitting a defender close by …. the mass whinging at games and micro analysis for two days afterwards on the conspiracy against us. I wonder is close by pens shouldn’t be given at all, unless a deliberate movement of the arm to ball or the arm is a long way from the body in a dumb manner (not needed for leverage, balance).

Fans have to appeal, with the law as it is. It's just that the law should be changed.

As for mass whinging and conspiracy against us. I still personally believe, that on average big teams get more favourable decisions not because of conspiracy or bribery, but because human beings will habitually take the path of least resistance. Giving controversial decisions against aggressive big 6 managers is not taking the path of least resistance, (which is why they calculate it's a good idea to be aggressive, and they're right, it is).

VAR is just one tool they use to help justify taking life's easy path

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

IMO it's not VAR, it's the incompetent people running it (with comment from The Complete and Utter Shyster highlighting the 'old boys club' problem).

Regarding red cards, freeze frames are obviously not the way to judge them.
Arteta however, is just a moronic bad looser. Newcastle's goal standing wasn't a bad VAR decision.

One issue is that refs are not refereeing the game as well as they used to, as they're relying on VAR to fix their errors, but VAR isn't doing so as it doesn't want to intervene. If refs officiated as they used to, and let VAR step in when necessary, we'd be in a better place. Yet more user error.

Despite how poorly VAR is implemented at the moment, it's still fixing more incorrect decisions than it's causing (but of course it should be better).

I think plenty of people would say the Newcastle goal WAS a bad VAR decision.
The ball out of play decision was quite possibly ok. The offside too. But a lot or people would have given the push on the defender as a foul, and said so as pundits and so on.

 

[Silverhatch]

Has anyone else noticed the general split between armchair ‘fans’ and people who actually go to games on VAR? I have friends who are armchair premier league fans and think VAR is great with all the ‘drama’ it creates. But they’ve never sat in a stadium wondering what the hell is going on for 6 minutes after they’ve celebrated a goal.

It's UTTERLY SHIT for the ground-attendee. PLEASE BIN IT until it's fit-for-purpose i.e. proper, dedicated technology and software and real-time reporting that takes it out of the hands (as much as possible) of humans. It is killing football as a 'being there' spectator sport.

 

[Weststander]

Fans have to appeal, with the law as it is. It's just that the law should be changed.

As for mass whinging and conspiracy against us. I still personally believe, that on average big teams get more favourable decisions not because of conspiracy or bribery, but because human beings will habitually take the path of least resistance. Giving controversial decisions against aggressive big 6 managers is not taking the path of least resistance, (which is why they calculate it's a good idea to be aggressive, and they're right, it is).

VAR is just one tool they use to help justify taking life's easy path

My theory on that is referees being homers, bottling it in front of crowds. More than a conspiracy. Villa and Fulham were/are diabolical cheats, refs their mates.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

My theory on that is referees being homers, bottling it in front of crowds. More than a conspiracy. Villa and Fulham were/are diabolical cheats, refs their mates.

But if it's small club home, big club away, the big club still on average gets the decisions

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Has anyone else noticed the general split between armchair ‘fans’ and people who actually go to games on VAR? I have friends who are armchair premier league fans and think VAR is great with all the ‘drama’ it creates. But they’ve never sat in a stadium wondering what the hell is going on for 6 minutes after they’ve celebrated a goal.

As I said elsewhere, there's enough drama in football WITHOUT the fallout of VAR.

Either seriously overhaul the whole process, or get rid.

 

[Brovion]

I think those who say "There's nothing wrong with VAR it's just the officials running it" are looking at it the wrong way, it's actually the exact opposite. There's nothing wrong with the VAR officials: they're human the same as us, and because they're human they make mistakes, and some are better than others. (And that's before you even get down to individual interpretations). Until we get AI that will always be the case.

What is wrong is what VAR is expected to do, which is to get every decision 'right'. This is not possible as refereeing is, to quote Andre Mariner (I think), "Not an exact science". So leaving aside the 'toenail' offsides (which with sufficient analysis it is possible sacrifice spontaneity to satisfy the OCD cravings of the most anal supporter) VAR is just another subjective layer of referring overlaid on top of the existing on-field subjective refereeing.

And we'll be having this debate for the rest of our lives.

 

[Algernon]

Fans, players, pundits, and managers will all find something to moan about when the decisions or results go against their team. Even ours. (No never)
It's why we have VAR now.
The only benefit of getting rid of it is that we won't have the drawn out wait for decisions.
Refs and VAR have the benefit of replays and still manage to make the incorrect decision. I'd like to know what makes anyone think that everything will be correct after ditching the VAR panto?
This is football, VAR is just part of it. You take the rough with the smooth unfortunately because there's human involvement.

Having watched the 5 mins ish highlights on YouTube, only Rashford could tell you his intentions and he'd only proclaim his innocence.
However I'm so glad Man Utd lost again because I can't stand the club.
And this I love.
The "childish clown"and habitual penalty spot scuffer Garnacho holding his finger to his lips shushing the Copenhagen fans behind the goal after rat fink's penalty. Only for them to ultimately lose the match.
Almost perfect, and could only have been better if it had been us dishing out a whipping and shutting them up. I 'ates em, I tell ya, I 'ates em.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

I’m no fan of Arsenal or Arteta, but that was a clear foul on Gabriel. Every ex-player pundit has said so since, listening/watching to MOTD, R5 and TS. On Monday evening Mark Chapman on the MNC was disappointed that the studio team all concurred.

These errors has always occurred in football. It’s the incompetence/lack of bottle from the armchair VAR official to call it a clear error and a foul, that’s startling.

But Arteta didn’t know the fine detail at his rant, wildly insinuating a catalogue of errors, he was wrong.

Plenty of people have opined that it wasn’t a foul. I listen to all the main podcasts for my sins, and most opinion seems to be against the goal being disallowed, and certainly against the Arteta rant.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

I don't think think it's looking all dewey eyed at the past to say that officiating has never been as controversial as it is today. There was never a chance that VAR wouldn't over reach and every attempt to stop it doing so has failed.

Time to abolish it entirely. If nothing else, it might take some of the toxicity out. Sure there will be dodgy decisions as there always were and still are. It's just that those dodgy decisions will be far harder to paint as conspiracies against a particular club.

Far easier, for the halfwits who go for conspiracy over cock-up every time.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

But if it's small club home, big club away, the big club still on average gets the decisions

Rubbish, I see no stats for that. It's all perception. ALL clubs have had poor VAR decisions but it was far worse pre-VAR when there was no check possible.

If VAR was dropped now, you know exactly what would happen. We’d be back to having far worse decisions being made, with a chorus of "VAR would have spotted that". The issue is the frequency of VAR usage, and the length of time it takes. Sort those things out and we’re fine. Let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[OzMike]

It is turning the game and atmosphere to shit.