[Football] "Football is never meant to be like this"

[TomandJerry]

“The first is offside, the second a penalty – but it’s so close and the hand is in such a normal position. The red card is harsh, he [Rashford] went for the ball and the referee needed such a long time [to decide]. When you freeze [the act] it always looks worse.

“I’m very disappointed about such decisions. The game is never meant to be like this – this has nothing to do with football." - Ten Hag

Following in Arteta's swipe of VAR

 

[Commander]

Has anyone else noticed the general split between armchair ‘fans’ and people who actually go to games on VAR? I have friends who are armchair premier league fans and think VAR is great with all the ‘drama’ it creates. But they’ve never sat in a stadium wondering what the hell is going on for 6 minutes after they’ve celebrated a goal.

 

[Triggaaar]

IMO it's not VAR, it's the incompetent people running it (with comment from The Complete and Utter Shyster highlighting the 'old boys club' problem).

Regarding red cards, freeze frames are obviously not the way to judge them.
Arteta however, is just a moronic bad looser. Newcastle's goal standing wasn't a bad VAR decision.

One issue is that refs are not refereeing the game as well as they used to, as they're relying on VAR to fix their errors, but VAR isn't doing so as it doesn't want to intervene. If refs officiated as they used to, and let VAR step in when necessary, we'd be in a better place. Yet more user error.

Despite how poorly VAR is implemented at the moment, it's still fixing more incorrect decisions than it's causing (but of course it should be better).

 

[Commander]

IMO it's not VAR, it's the incompetent people running it (with comment from The Complete and Utter Shyster highlighting the 'old boys club' problem).

Regarding red cards, freeze frames are obviously not the way to judge them.
Arteta however, is just a moronic bad looser. Newcastle's goal standing wasn't a bad VAR decision.

One issue is that refs are not refereeing the game as well as they used to, as they're relying on VAR to fix their errors, but VAR isn't doing so as it doesn't want to intervene. If refs officiated as they used to, and let VAR step in when necessary, we'd be in a better place. Yet more user error.

Despite how poorly VAR is implemented at the moment, it's still fixing more incorrect decisions than it's causing (but of course it should be better).

It might be, but it’s cause more controversy than there was before. Which is the opposite of what was supposed to be the whole point of it.

 

[A1X]

Has anyone else noticed the general split between armchair ‘fans’ and people who actually go to games on VAR? I have friends who are armchair premier league fans and think VAR is great with all the ‘drama’ it creates. But they’ve never sat in a stadium wondering what the hell is going on for 6 minutes after they’ve celebrated a goal.

The stupid thing is this is such an easy fix, just put the VAR process on the big screens. It took cricket ages to work this out too TBH.

 

[Milano]

Whether you like Danny Baker or not his opinions and comments over the last couple of seasons re VAR are spot on IMO.
The main problem IMO is this aspiration for ‘perfection’. It’s killing the game for fans. The best/worst example being drawing lines for offside, if you have to draw lines then it’s so close so just don’t bother and go with the on field decision.

 

[Drebin]

IMO it's not VAR, it's the incompetent people running it (with comment from The Complete and Utter Shyster highlighting the 'old boys club' problem).

Regarding red cards, freeze frames are obviously not the way to judge them.
Arteta however, is just a moronic bad looser. Newcastle's goal standing wasn't a bad VAR decision.

One issue is that refs are not refereeing the game as well as they used to, as they're relying on VAR to fix their errors, but VAR isn't doing so as it doesn't want to intervene. If refs officiated as they used to, and let VAR step in when necessary, we'd be in a better place. Yet more user error.

Despite how poorly VAR is implemented at the moment, it's still fixing more incorrect decisions than it's causing (but of course it should be better).

This is the problem with VAR. It takes the context away from a situation, and in football it’s all about context; intent and control over your actions. Rashford’s stamp yesterday showed little malice in real time, but looked nasty when freeze framed. To me it looked like he was unlucky that someone put their foot under his when he was trying to shield the ball.

Agree about Arteta. He doesn’t understand that despite the use of video, VAR is still a human’s interpretation of a situation. All three situations in the Newcastle goal could have been interpreted in the way they did, as could the Havertz lunge he forgot to add to his whining.

 

[Littlemo]

The stupid thing is this is such an easy fix, just put the VAR process on the big screens. It took cricket ages to work this out too TBH.

It’s not, it won’t work. People just don’t accept decisions they disagree with and consider their view of things the absolute truth.

Arteta’s rant is a good example, the Newcastle goal standing is imo 50/50 the foul will sometimes be give but other times not, it would be soft because he’s already over and there’s no real pressure on him. The ball being out and the offside don’t have clear angles to see so they can’t be ruled out on that basis.

Arteta talks like it’s a clear and obvious f*** up but it isn’t. It’s perfectly legitimate for VAR to interpret things that way and give the goal. Rashford’s red is another, clear division of opinion even amongst the pundits. I thought it was a pretty clear red. Yet here Ten Hag is talking like it’s a clear mistake, but it’s not, it’s the subjective decision of the ref.

Subjective decisions will always be argued about, because they are subjective. VAR doesn’t change that, all we see is that in most cases there are a lot of factors when decisions are made and different people think different things are relevant. Seeing the process won’t help, people will argue they shouldn’t do it that way and still call the decisions bullshit.

 

[Drebin]

It’s not, it won’t work. People just don’t accept decisions they disagree with and consider their view of things the absolute truth.

Arteta’s rant is a good example, the Newcastle goal standing is imo 50/50 the foul will sometimes be give but other times not, it would be soft because he’s already over and there’s no real pressure on him. The ball being out and the offside don’t have clear angles to see so they can’t be ruled out on that basis.

Arteta talks like it’s a clear and obvious f*** up but it isn’t. It’s perfectly legitimate for VAR to interpret things that way and give the goal. Rashford’s red is another, clear division of opinion even amongst the pundits. I thought it was a pretty clear red. Yet here Ten Hag is talking like it’s a clear mistake, but it’s not, it’s the subjective decision of the ref.

Subjective decisions will always be argued about, because they are subjective. VAR doesn’t change that, all we see is that in most cases there are a lot of factors when decisions are made and different people think different things are relevant. Seeing the process won’t help, people will argue they shouldn’t do it that way and still call the decisions bullshit.

The worst thing about the use of VAR is in the highly unlikely situation that they stop using it, the media will carry on using it and tear apart referees performances, and erode even further the little credibility they have now.

 

[RandyWanger]

Has anyone else noticed the general split between armchair ‘fans’ and people who actually go to games on ...

Everything! Chelsea fans who have never set foot inside the UK let alone their stadium are some of the worst Twitter users out there.

 

[Weststander]

It’s not, it won’t work. People just don’t accept decisions they disagree with and consider their view of things the absolute truth.

Arteta’s rant is a good example, the Newcastle goal standing is imo 50/50 the foul will sometimes be give but other times not, it would be soft because he’s already over and there’s no real pressure on him. The ball being out and the offside don’t have clear angles to see so they can’t be ruled out on that basis.

Arteta talks like it’s a clear and obvious f*** up but it isn’t. It’s perfectly legitimate for VAR to interpret things that way and give the goal. Rashford’s red is another, clear division of opinion even amongst the pundits. I thought it was a pretty clear red. Yet here Ten Hag is talking like it’s a clear mistake, but it’s not, it’s the subjective decision of the ref.

Subjective decisions will always be argued about, because they are subjective. VAR doesn’t change that, all we see is that in most cases there are a lot of factors when decisions are made and different people think different things are relevant. Seeing the process won’t help, people will argue they shouldn’t do it that way and still call the decisions bullshit.

I’m no fan of Arsenal or Arteta, but that was a clear foul on Gabriel. Every ex-player pundit has said so since, listening/watching to MOTD, R5 and TS. On Monday evening Mark Chapman on the MNC was disappointed that the studio team all concurred.

These errors has always occurred in football. It’s the incompetence/lack of bottle from the armchair VAR official to call it a clear error and a foul, that’s startling.

But Arteta didn’t know the fine detail at his rant, wildly insinuating a catalogue of errors, he was wrong.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

IMO it's not VAR, it's the incompetent people running it (with comment from The Complete and Utter Shyster highlighting the 'old boys club' problem).

Regarding red cards, freeze frames are obviously not the way to judge them.
Arteta however, is just a moronic bad looser. Newcastle's goal standing wasn't a bad VAR decision.

One issue is that refs are not refereeing the game as well as they used to, as they're relying on VAR to fix their errors, but VAR isn't doing so as it doesn't want to intervene. If refs officiated as they used to, and let VAR step in when necessary, we'd be in a better place. Yet more user error.

Despite how poorly VAR is implemented at the moment, it's still fixing more incorrect decisions than it's causing (but of course it should be better).

I don't think think it's looking all dewey eyed at the past to say that officiating has never been as controversial as it is today. There was never a chance that VAR wouldn't over reach and every attempt to stop it doing so has failed.

Time to abolish it entirely. If nothing else, it might take some of the toxicity out. Sure there will be dodgy decisions as there always were and still are. It's just that those dodgy decisions will be far harder to paint as conspiracies against a particular club.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

One thing that has been different this season, and why there is currently such a furore, is that there has been questionable VAR decisions go against big clubs. For the first few years it's mostly just clubs like us who've had the wrong end of it.

People like Klopp and Arteta are now finding out what it's like to be on the wrong end of unfathomable VAR (or non) interventions, and they don't like it much .

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

“The first is offside, the second a penalty – but it’s so close and the hand is in such a normal position. The red card is harsh, he [Rashford] went for the ball and the referee needed such a long time [to decide]. When you freeze [the act] it always looks worse.

“I’m very disappointed about such decisions. The game is never meant to be like this – this has nothing to do with football." - Ten Hag

Following in Arteta's swipe of VAR

Is he criticising the United penalty or Copenhagen one?

If it's not the United one that he is just having a moan at a shocking result.

Funny thing is, if managers took decisions and didn't cry about it for weeks after we wouldn't have VAR in the first place.

 

[Mr deez]

As well as VAR it's the penalty rule where the slightest infringement is awarded an almost certain goal. If the consequences didn't fundamentally break the sport, it wouldn't be such a big deal. As it stands a 90 minute match can be rendered irrelevant by someone accidentally being hit by the ball.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I’m no fan of Arsenal or Arteta, but that was a clear foul on Gabriel. Every ex-player pundit has said so since, listening/watching to MOTD, R5 and TS. On Monday evening Mark Chapman on the MNC was disappointed that the studio team all concurred.

These errors has always occurred in football. It’s the incompetence/lack of bottle from the armchair VAR official to call it a clear error and a foul, that’s startling.

But Arteta didn’t know the fine detail at his rant, wildly insinuating a catalogue of errors, he was wrong.

I agree, it was a push and should have been ruled out

But some of the rubbish after about it being the worst decision ever are way OTT

 

[WATFORD zero]

It should only be used to overrule clear and obvious errors. If you can't decide in 30 seconds then it isn't f***ing obvious. Simple

 

[Weststander]

Is he criticising the United penalty or Copenhagen one?

If it's not the United one that he is just having a moan at a shocking result.

Funny thing is, if managers took decisions and didn't cry about it for weeks after we wouldn't have VAR in the first place.

Do you think Rashford should’ve been dismissed? Under the modern law where intent doesn’t come into it, I think so.

Dale Stephens was famously sent off at Boro, for far, far less.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Do you think Rashford should’ve been dismissed? Under the modern law where intent doesn’t come into it, I think so.

Dale Stephens was famously sent off at Boro, for far, far less.

The law is an ass.

Intent should come into it. Anyone who has played football will know that collisions happen and you can't spend the entire game with your boot below ankle height.

If there's no intention to endanger and there's no un-natural movement, or recklessness, there should be no serious foul play

 

[pb21]

IMO it's not VAR, it's the incompetent people running it

I'm not sure if it's incompetent people running it, or just people.

Either way it needs to go now imo, until its run by competent people and demonstrably shown to be so, if that's possible. Also, deccsions should take less than 30 s or so. If that can't happen it stays away too.