[Football] Football commentators must address racial “bias” article taken from the BBC Sport site

[Swansman]

From certain regions genetically, but you have made the "unconscious bias" mistake of lumping all black people together in terms of their physique which varies massively.

We are all guilty of it. We tend to think that black people are better at the 100 metres, but wouldn't think that white people are better at rock climbing.

We note that the hundred metres final is "filled" with black contestants but don't think about other sports that on reflection are mostly contested by white people.

Running is the only sport in the world where accessibility is even for everyone (except a few weird people living on the top of steep mountaints etc), which is what makes the genetical thing interesting. The best short-distance runners are from Western Africa and the best long distance runners are from Eastern Africa. Both with a few expections of course.

That's why it is remarkable and often mentioned: everyone can run but people with African heritage are better at it.

Sports where white people dominate are in various degrees mainly accessible for white people. No one finds it interesting or fascinating that white people win all bobsleigh competitons when 99% of the people who can afford and access it are white.

Sometimes in discussions about this, people bring up swimming. "There's water everywhere so everyone have the same access etc", which is a very eurocentric perspective and flawed at that; any healthy person are able to run naturally, while it actually takes teaching to learn swimming. In countries like yours and mine 80-90% are able to swim, over at Donaldland its about 50% or so (bit more maybe) while in many Asian and African countries very, very few got that swimming education that is easy for us to take for granted.

To learn how to swim professionally its also a big fat advantage if you have the facilities for it and a lot of countries dont have a single 50m pool to train in.

Running and jumping are the sports where black & white people have the same opportunity to compete, and these sports are generally dominated by black people. Sure, that hurts in both the racist and the anti-racist just like females being unable to compete with men in any physical sport hurts the feminist, but thats how it is. The world is unfair.

 

[Bakero]

Tyldesley's two cents:

https://youtu.be/AHPZ-GL3pc8

Article here if you can't watch the vid https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...rs-to-receive-training-on-racial-stereotyping

 

[Pierre the Painter]

All BT staff are now receiving training to eliminate racial bias from their commentary, and are appointing a zsar to review all commentary going forwards to ensure racial bias is eliminated, given the amount of love in about Liverpool on their commentaries particularly McMananaman will be intersting to see if it extends to all bias or just race.

 

[darkwolf666]

They certainly would. Trinidad & Tobago had a white man played for them in the World Cup a few years back, and he was definitely referred to as the white guy. Especially byt eh Trinidadians, according to at least one interview with him.

If five men with black hair and one with blond hair, you would refer to the blond guy. If five men are thin and one fat, you would (assuming politeness wasn't too important) refer to the fat guy. If five were short and one tall, you would refer to the tall guy.

Someone who is truly non-racist would, if there were five white men and one black, refer to the black guy - because to someone who is truly non-racist, colour of skin means no more than colour of hair. But society as a whole hasn't reached that stage yet, and the anti-racist movements presumably think that stage is too far away even to strive for as yet - regardless of what Martin Luther King said 50+ years ago. So they still divide us into "BAME" and "white British" and expect the two groups to be treated differently. Is that better? I don't think so; I may be wrong. But just to call someone racist because they think colour of skin is a useful descriptor? That's wrong. The true anti-racist thinks that colour of skin is no more than a useful descriptor.

Well said that man, are you sure you support Burnley (kidding - racial stereotype)!

 

[Sheebo]

From certain regions genetically, but you have made the "unconscious bias" mistake of lumping all black people together in terms of their physique which varies massively.

We are all guilty of it. We tend to think that black people are better at the 100 metres, but wouldn't think that white people are better at rock climbing.

We note that the hundred metres final is "filled" with black contestants but don't think about other sports that on reflection are mostly contested by white people.

No mate I haven’t - I’m reciting the facts I was taught in A Level PE - fast twitch and slow twitch fibres are at different levels for Black people and white people.

Just checked and it is correct:

 

[Sheebo]

They certainly would. Trinidad & Tobago had a white man played for them in the World Cup a few years back, and he was definitely referred to as the white guy. Especially byt eh Trinidadians, according to at least one interview with him.

If five men with black hair and one with blond hair, you would refer to the blond guy. If five men are thin and one fat, you would (assuming politeness wasn't too important) refer to the fat guy. If five were short and one tall, you would refer to the tall guy.

Someone who is truly non-racist would, if there were five white men and one black, refer to the black guy - because to someone who is truly non-racist, colour of skin means no more than colour of hair. But society as a whole hasn't reached that stage yet, and the anti-racist movements presumably think that stage is too far away even to strive for as yet - regardless of what Martin Luther King said 50+ years ago. So they still divide us into "BAME" and "white British" and expect the two groups to be treated differently. Is that better? I don't think so; I may be wrong. But just to call someone racist because they think colour of skin is a useful descriptor? That's wrong. The true anti-racist thinks that colour of skin is no more than a useful descriptor.

Bang on. People are often looking for racism when it simply isn’t there. Many on here do it at every possible chance whilst they’re hugging their favourite tree with one hand and judging the world on the internet via NSC and their smart phone in the other. There are many far left who just can’t seem to accept someone has a different view than them and have to therefore call them racist...

 

[Bakero]

No mate I haven’t - I’m reciting the facts I was taught in A Level PE - fast twitch and slow twitch fibres are at different levels for Black people and white people.

Just checked and it is correct:
View attachment 125586

"People of West African descent"

 

[Sheebo]

"People of West African descent"

Yep - mainly people of colour. Also Jamaicans have it more than West Africans and most of them are black. So yeh black people have it more and more fast twitch is basically the crux of it as their descent is usually somewhere around there innit.

 

[Bakero]

Yep - mainly people of colour. Also Jamaicans have it more than West Africans and most of them are black. So yeh black people have it more and more fast twitch is basically the crux of it as their descent is usually somewhere around there innit.

[MENTION=865]clapham_gull[/MENTION] said "From certain regions genetically, but you have made the "unconscious bias" mistake of lumping all black people together in terms of their physique which varies massively."

He's right- there's more genetic diversity amongst Africans than the rest of the world combined. As you pointed out, people of West African descent have more fast twitch fibres, hence making good sprinters. Most African Americans can trace their ancestry to that region, I imagine most Jamaicans too, as the West African coast was the root of the transatlantic slave trade.

Anyway, this has little to do with the theme of the thread. Yes, some black footballers are fast due to the fast twitch fibres linked to their ancestry. However, that doesn't mean commentators need to fixate on this feature over other skills, which is what the data and anecdotal evidence suggests is the case.

 

[Giraffe]

We are all guilty of it. We tend to think that black people are better at the 100 metres.

Because they are. And they can't swim as well. Both of these things are genetic facts. Why can't we celebrate what people are good at and accept that there are weaknesses as well. Not everyone can be the same. We are not robots.

 

[Bakero]

 

[clapham_gull]

No mate I haven’t - I’m reciting the facts I was taught in A Level PE - fast twitch and slow are at different levels for Black people and white people.

Just checked and it is correct:
View attachment 125586

I know exactly what you are referring to, read your books again

It refers to those of West African ancestry.

 

[clapham_gull]

Because they are. And they can't swim as well. Both of these things are genetic facts. Why can't we celebrate what people are good at and accept that there are weaknesses as well. Not everyone can be the same. We are not robots.

Gone over your head too, not that I'm surprised.

 

[Lindfield by the Pond]

Out of interest, can you name some black players who are famously lauded for their football intelligence by commentators?

Always remember Clarke Carlisle being talked about as a very intelligent man. Always an articulate speaker, and has good academic qualifications to back him up. went to Uni and has degree if I remember. PFA rep as well

 

[Bold Seagull]

Are some of our NSC scientists going to tell Simone Manuel she needs to give her Olympic swimming medals back as her bones are too dense?

 

[Sheebo]

[MENTION=865]clapham_gull[/MENTION] said "From certain regions genetically, but you have made the "unconscious bias" mistake of lumping all black people together in terms of their physique which varies massively."

He's right- there's more genetic diversity amongst Africans than the rest of the world combined. As you pointed out, people of West African descent have more fast twitch fibres, hence making good sprinters. Most African Americans can trace their ancestry to that region, I imagine most Jamaicans too, as the West African coast was the root of the transatlantic slave trade.

Anyway, this has little to do with the theme of the thread. Yes, some black footballers are fast due to the fast twitch fibres linked to their ancestry. However, that doesn't mean commentators need to fixate on this feature over other skills, which is what the data and anecdotal evidence suggests is the case.

Yeh fair play but as I said I was literal my told it was black and white people - 6th form 2004! I guess we all make unconscious bias sometimes - better than conscious eh

 

[Sheebo]

I know exactly what you are referring to, read your books again

It refers to those of West African ancestry.

Blame Heathfield CC then

 

[Stat Brother]

Sorry for the slight detour but I've got nowhere else to put this that isn't The Bear Pit.


Tres funny:-

[tweet]1277559780677124102[/tweet]

 

[Nixonator]

The thing is, stereotypes always have some element of truth in them. People of west african descent tend to have faster 'twitch' muscles (I think that's what they're called) so most top sprinters fall in to that category. But that's not equal to black players being stronger or faster. Among other reasons, that's why stereotypes are bad - As I said, they have a basis of truth but overall are false.

If you actually study muscle fibre potential and SM mass as well as comprehensive statistics on IQ, it's obvious why these are keenly avoided topics, as it makes for uncomfortable dialogue despite offering some explanation.

Studies on physiological and intellectual differences between races are out there for interpretation, largely down to evolutionary history. The 'postive discrimation' regarding strength and speed towards those of african descent, despite how crude or unpalatable the manner in which the comments are made, are largely based on biological truths.

 

[GREASED WEASEL]

Sorry for the slight detour but I've got nowhere else to put this that isn't The Bear Pit.


Tres funny:-

[tweet]1277559780677124102[/tweet]

Cycling isn't exactly diverse is it