First sub 2 hour marathon

[hans kraay fan club]

Plus, with all due respect to the pole vaulters, it's probably a bit easier to break records in that arena.

Not in the men's event. Bubka, for reasons of natural ability, brilliant technique, or otherwise, was miles ahead of anyone since. 6.14m is massive, and a full 10cm higher than the best jump in the world last year.

The women's is different. The reason the record was broken so very many times over the last decade is that it was effectively a brand new sport (first in the Olympics in 2000, and only started at any level about 10 years earlier) so no talented athletes had previously devoted their careers to it.

 

[Lord Bamber]

As said I'll cross reference tonight, in the meantime I thought I'd look to see what, if any, records Marion Jones holds.

Only to find Florence Griffith Joyner still holds the 1 and 200 metre record.

Basically (very much off the top of my head, athletics not being my thing) the first sign of credibility in Women's world records appears with Paula Radcliffe in the 10km (road).


The bottom line for me is always:-
'cycling was very dirty, everybody still points at cycling, because all the time you do that nobody looks anywhere else'.

I shall bounce the NSC drugs in sport compendium.

Interviewing Flo-Jo under oath would help in finding out whether she raced clean or dirty. Now I wonder where we could find her

 

[Lord Bamber]

As an aside. I wonder how the sub 2-hour will be broken. Will someone actually come out and say they are going to attempt it at the blah-blah marathon? As far as I am aware most marathon world records just happen when a wide set of factors and circumstances all come good; Wilson Kipsang was vocal about his desire to break the world record a few weeks ago but whilst he had trained well there are so many variables which go into a marathon WR that he did not really know how the day would turn out. In fact he only knew it was on in the last few kilometers...he was actually well off the pace at 35k mark by around 30 seconds. A bit more head wind and he would have had failed.

I genuinely think there will be a lot of publicity surrounding attempts. If they fail due to weather they fail. Returning to Roger Bannister and the 4 minute mile, they took every chance they could. I appreciate the recovery time after each attempt is different but the desire to be the 1st man overcame possible negatives, such as weather. Indeed the very afternoon it was broken, right up to the gun, the wind was considered too strong, yet, in a twist of fate, it dropped for the race. So, gather together the best, the very best, who have specifically ignored everything else and trained, trained trained, they will go for it.

 

[Lord Bamber]

Is the Ultra 50 miles LB? And am I right in thinking you did 4 marathons last year... in 2 months? Clearly this was not enough for you

Ultra is anything from 50 upwards. I did do 4 marathons in 4 weeks last year and looking to an Ultra this or most probably next year to try and raise some cash for charity. Becomes harder to raise the money year on year so the challenge has to increase.

And before Stat Brother pipes up.....I'm clean!!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Ultra is anything from 50 upwards. I did do 4 marathons in 4 weeks last year and looking to an Ultra this or most probably next year to try and raise some cash for charity. Becomes harder to raise the money year on year so the challenge has to increase.

And before Stat Brother pipes up.....I'm clean!!

Apologies, I put 4 marathons in a relatively shabby 8 week period Total respect on the Ultra. Be sure to tap me up for some sponsorship money as well.

As an aside, I'm planning on two marathons next year. One month apart. Any advice on what training to do in the 4 week gap. I plan to get a good time on the first but cruise the second so I just need something to keep my ticking over. Trouble is you're supposed to taper for 3 weeks before a race. Was thinking of a week off then repeat the taper.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Interviewing Flo-Jo under oath would help in finding out whether she raced clean or dirty. Now I wonder where we could find her

Her WR really is the one that stands out for me. Bearing in mind just how much the men's 100m record has dropped in the last couple of decades (9.57 or whatever Bolt's record is would have been utterly unthinkable in the 1980s), it's fascinating how nobody has even got close to Flo-Jo's.

Even on drugs, Ben Johnson's "record" was eventually overtaken. Whereas Flo-Jo is still miles out ahead. Did dying early save her from greater investigation?

 

[Lord Bamber]

Her WR really is the one that stands out for me. Bearing in mind just how much the men's 100m record has dropped in the last couple of decades (9.57 or whatever Bolt's record is would have been utterly unthinkable in the 1980s), it's fascinating how nobody has even got close to Flo-Jo's.

Even on drugs, Ben Johnson's "record" was eventually overtaken. Whereas Flo-Jo is still miles out ahead. Did dying early save her from greater investigation?

If dying could ever actually 'save' someone then yes it saved her from greater investigation although I am somewhat surprised her samples have not been retested to see what was in them. Using modern technology, whatever it was she was on must be spottable now. It clearly had more than a caffeine gel and given how and when she died, she was quite simply as guilty as a puppy sitting next to a pile of poo.

Is it just me who thinks she looked like a butch Nicole Scherzinger?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Is it just me who thinks she looks like a butch Nicole Scherzinger?

Not any more.

 

[Lord Bamber]

Apologies, I put 4 marathons in a relatively shabby 8 week period Total respect on the Ultra. Be sure to tap me up for some sponsorship money as well.

As an aside, I'm planning on two marathons next year. One month apart. Any advice on what training to do in the 4 week gap. I plan to get a good time on the first but cruise the second so I just need something to keep my ticking over. Trouble is you're supposed to taper for 3 weeks before a race. Was thinking of a week off then repeat the taper.

Having run 4 in 4 weeks, I am not sure tapering is the answer as I ran a PB in the last having set one in the 1st. So I would say, keep on running, albeit gently. No silly speed training or hills, just enough to keep the legs ticking over. Two gentle runs in the week and a long one of anything from 13 to 20 miles would be my advice.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Flo-Jo's world record (that nobody ever got near) was run in a heat at a qualifying event in Indianapolis. I didn't know that until now.

Knowing how someone like Usain Bolt conserves his energy, does it seem likely that she would have expended enough energy to blow away the world record in a heat at a minor event?

(Though Wikipedia does suggest there may also have been some issue with the legality of the following wind too).

 

[Stat Brother]

Her WR really is the one that stands out for me. Bearing in mind just how much the men's 100m record has dropped in the last couple of decades (9.57 or whatever Bolt's record is would have been utterly unthinkable in the 1980s), it's fascinating how nobody has even got close to Flo-Jo's.

Even on drugs, Ben Johnson's "record" was eventually overtaken. Whereas Flo-Jo is still miles out ahead. Did dying early save her from greater investigation?

Bolt is absolute box office and he's fantastic, it's a real shame he has been blighted by the Jamaican federations piss poor management. He moves like a freak of nature.
Nevertheless because of the climate we are in, he needed to have been tested like Chris Froome or Bradley Wiggins, he hasn't and that allows doubt into the equation, which is ploppy.

If dying could ever actually 'save' someone then yes it saved her from greater investigation although I am somewhat surprised her samples have not been retested to see what was in them. Using modern technology, whatever it was she was on must be spottable now. It clearly had more than a caffeine gel and given how and when she died, she was quite simply as guilty as a puppy sitting next to a pile of poo.

I appreciate that's a throw away comment, and you probably have more of an understanding of these matters, but for those that don't.

An extensive PED programme isn't just popping a pill or drinking a shake.
It's a multi million pound (dollar in this case) business, of screening, testing, injections, samples, hormones, transfusions and so on.
'Oh I took the wrong supplement' just means either they are stoopid or they think we are.

It's something the Americans are very good at, with Spanish law enabling them to be the 'home of PED's' in mainland Europe.
While many East German coaches found their way to China after unification.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Also, on FGJ's record, the fact that it was set at a nonentity of an event makes me more suspicious.

Reading Tyler Hamilton's book on doping in cycling, one of the biggest things for them was to ensure that the vast majority of the drugs they took were outside of the major competitions. They'd time their withdrawal to coincide with the run up to the big ones, so that at the events where they were more likely to be tested, they were clear.

FGJ ran by far the fastest 100m of all time (by a woman) outside peak event season and on home turf. It's been documented previously that the US drug officials were fairly lax back then, such was their desperation to battle the Eastern Europeans at the Olympics, and athletes got away with stuff they wouldn't get away with now.

 

[Lord Bamber]

Also, on FGJ's record, the fact that it was set at a nonentity of an event makes me more suspicious.

Reading Tyler Hamilton's book on doping in cycling, one of the biggest things for them was to ensure that the vast majority of the drugs they took were outside of the major competitions. They'd time their withdrawal to coincide with the run up to the big ones, so that at the events where they were more likely to be tested, they were clear.

FGJ ran by far the fastest 100m of all time (by a woman) outside peak event season and on home turf. It's been documented previously that the US drug officials were fairly lax back then, such was their desperation to battle the Eastern Europeans at the Olympics, and athletes got away with stuff they wouldn't get away with now.

Unless I am wrong, I think the record was set at the US Trials which to them is big. Its the biggest home meet on their calendar and that year was the Olympic trials.

 

[Stat Brother]

Also, on FGJ's record, the fact that it was set at a nonentity of an event makes me more suspicious.

Reading Tyler Hamilton's book on doping in cycling, one of the biggest things for them was to ensure that the vast majority of the drugs they took were outside of the major competitions. They'd time their withdrawal to coincide with the run up to the big ones, so that at the events where they were more likely to be tested, they were clear.

FGJ ran by far the fastest 100m of all time (by a woman) outside peak event season and on home turf. It's been documented previously that the US drug officials were fairly lax back then, such was their desperation to battle the Eastern Europeans at the Olympics, and athletes got away with stuff they wouldn't get away with now.

Nobody should get 'popped' in competition.

You know you're going to be tested if you win, if you have no intention of winning what's the point.

Drug testing in sport is still fairly lax, to put it mildly.
Somewhere in the Lance thread is a great pi chart dividing total testing and sports, for 2012.
It's 3/4 ers cycling then athletics and swimming, both tiny by comparison, but still massive when compared to everything else inc football.

As an aside it also has the testing that has happened in Bridge, you'll be amazed at how many sports tested less than Bridge.

 

[Lord Bamber]

A source close to Mo Farah (a quick source then) has revealed Mo has set his sights on being the first to break 2 hour marathon.

Mo has today announce he will run in the VLM 2014. Is it getting nearer??

 

[chimneys]

A source close to Mo Farah (a quick source then) has revealed Mo has set his sights on being the first to break 2 hour marathon.

Mo has today announce he will run in the VLM 2014. Is it getting nearer??

Hi LB.

My view is Mo is an exceptional middle distance runner, but unproven at marathon. The only guide we have thus far is his 2013 Great North Run. He was flat out there and did in a very quick 1hr 10 secs, but that is nowhere near going to convert to a sub 2 marathon, and he didn't even win it (albeit a lot of that down to poor tactics)!

He is not as exceptional in his field as Usain Bolt is at sprinting and I think to get under 2 hours, a runner would have to be a freak of nature as per Bolt.

I think the sub 2 hours is great hype and will generate interest as the sponsors want, but it wont be Mo doing it!

 

[Lord Bamber]

Hi LB.

My view is Mo is an exceptional middle distance runner, but unproven at marathon. The only guide we have thus far is his 2013 Great North Run. He was flat out there and did in a very quick 1hr 10 secs, but that is nowhere near going to convert to a sub 2 marathon, and he didn't even win it (albeit a lot of that down to poor tactics)!

He is not as exceptional in his field as Usain Bolt is at sprinting and I think to get under 2 hours, a runner would have to be a freak of nature as per Bolt.

I think the sub 2 hours is great hype and will generate interest as the sponsors want, but it wont be Mo doing it!

Hi Chimneys, how are you keeping

You are right in all your comments, especially the poor tactics. He is unproven at Marathon distance and we will know more after London Marathon. If he does well then he could break the WR but you are right, he probably wont be the one who breaks it but I think we are less than 20 years away from seeing someone do it. I know one thing......it wont be me.

 

[knocky1]

Shows that even mo has to respect marathon training. He says he will take London, his first one, easy and aim to beat 2:07. Just 7 minutes to go then. Doing my log run on Sunday I lost 7lbs. Got home and drank 6 pints of water in an hour and almost put it back on. Must remember not to let that happen on Brightonn marathon day.

 

[Goldstone1976]

Mo isn't actually that quick at 10k and 5k. At 10k, his PB is 29 seconds off the WR and he lies in 15th place in the all time list. At 5k, his PB is 16 seconds off the WR, and he's well outside the top 25 all-time. Note that the all-time lists are of athletes, not times; many of the athletes above him in the list have run faster than him multiple times.

Where Mo does excel is tactical brilliance with blinding pace in the last 600 in the big events, which is why he's now a double Olympic and World Champion.

I do wonder what would happen though if the other athletes set out to achieve a fast time, but still way off WR pace, in a big games. I suspect he wouldn't win.

As an interesting aside, Mo has run the 1500m seriously once, when he set a British record, beating Coe, Ovett, Cram, etc's PB. For 1500m, Mo is the 6th fastest ever athlete, and he's only run it once.

Given his PB's are so far off the pace for WRs at 5k and 10k, I just don't see how he can possibly be considered a serious threat for a WR (let alone a sub-2 hr) marathon.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Given his PB's are so far off the pace for WRs at 5k and 10k, I just don't see how he can possibly be considered a serious threat for a WR (let alone a sub-2 hr) marathon.

It doesn't work like this though. Take a look at current marathon WR holder Wilson Kipsang. His PB at 10K is 28 minutes 37 seconds which is a full 2 minutes off the 10k WR.