FC United - bit big for their boots?

[Simster]

I do feel that FC United fans are an easy target for some on here.

Wimbledon fans decide to form a new team rather than follow Fulham, Palace, Brentford or Chelsea (all VERY easy to get to) and they are lauded for it. FCUM fans do the same thing and people on here moan they don't follow Bury or Stockport, like it's their duty.

They follow a what is a big club at their level but a small one overall, and despite [MENTION=2125]dougdeep[/MENTION]'s usual glib nonsense, they WERE one of the noisiest, if not *the* noisiest away support we saw at Withdean.

As for this incident, I agree with [MENTION=7]Mustafa[/MENTION]. This is six and two threes. Fylde don't appear to come out of this any better really.

 

[Buzzer]

not really, but having been to several FC matches home and away and having a first hand knowledge of how/why the club was set up, the complete nonsense and failure to 'see the point' spouted on here (when we played them in the cup) by 'fans' that cant see through their Chelsea style hatred of 'Man You' and have never witnessed an FC match first hand is painful, and I'm not wasting my time labouring the point this time round

I'm curious as to why you've described those who are against the concept of FCUM as fans in inverted commas. Are you suggesting that we aren't real fans? I take it you are implying something derogatory because of the later 'Chelsea-style' reference.

So we're not 'real' fans but Man U fans are. Haha!

As far as I can tell the main dispute is with the fact that the Glaziers are milking the Man U cash cow to the detriment of the playing side and that Man U aren't the behemoth they once were. It's not about reclaiming football for real fans - it's about reclaiming the top spot. Where were the demonstrations when they went PLC? Where were all the protests when Man U were whoring themselves in Mickey Mouse matches in the Far East? Where were the letters and boycotts when they didn't play in the FA Cup one year? I don't recall a single Man U fan moaning about when they pioneered the aggressive marketing of Man U as a brand across the high streets all across Britain in the nineties and noughties to the detriment of local football clubs - ours included.

Man U sold their soul to the devil in the 90s and all those FCUM fans were perfectly happy as long as the trophies rolled in and there was only one club that mattered. As others have said - if they really wanted to get their club back then campaign from within as we did. The fact that a club so low-down in the football pyramid has so many hangers-on and admin staff rather suggests they have a very high opinion of themselves. What they can't cope with is the rest of us knowing that they didn't give a toss about the rest of football back when they were winning trebles and half of Singapore and China wearing their shirts and despite their protestations to the contrary they don't care about grassroots football now. All they care about is winning and winning on their terms.

F*ck 'em.

 

[attila]

Brilliant club, set up by dedicated fans with a great attitude fed up with the whole corporate Glazier/modern football bollocks, fans control everything on a one person one vote regardless of investment basis, for me the absolute heart and soul of the way I think football should be run, new stadium in Moston currently under construction and will open next season. I guess your attitude to FCUM will depend on your feelings about how football, and football as a microcosm of wider society, is going. Me, I love 'em and am a co owner to prove it Only seen them three or four times for obvious reasons (same as St Pauli, I'd never miss an Albion game to watch anyone else) but have never seen any hassle or anything other than wit, good humour and friendliness

 

[Simster]

All they care about is winning and winning on their terms.

F*ck 'em.

Harsh, considering they're in division 8 or something.

I'd also have to say it was lot easier to campaign against ruthless millionaires living in northern England, than it is against foreign oligarch billionaires who can and do just fück off abroad when they feel remotely threatened.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Brilliant club, set up by dedicated fans with a great attitude fed up with the whole corporate Glazier/modern football bollocks, fans control everything on a one person one vote regardless of investment basis, for me the absolute heart and soul of the way I think football should be run, new stadium in Moston currently under construction and will open next season. I guess your attitude to FCUM will depend on your feelings about how football, and football as a microcosm of wider society, is going. Me, I love 'em and am a co owner to prove it

Whether or not you feel that the principle aims and ethos of the club are laudable, is pretty much irrelevant to this specific debate. From this case, it looks to the outsider as though they are bullies - a small club, in a small pond, but full of people carrying big club attitudes / baggage. Ultimately they are still United fans.

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

FCUM are a decent club, just seems a few of their fans and their officials have acted like spoilt kids.

To be fair, they do have a large away following so there will always be a minority of idiots.

 

[vegster]

Brilliant club, set up by dedicated fans with a great attitude fed up with the whole corporate Glazier/modern football bollocks, fans control everything on a one person one vote regardless of investment basis, for me the absolute heart and soul of the way I think football should be run, new stadium in Moston currently under construction and will open next season. I guess your attitude to FCUM will depend on your feelings about how football, and football as a microcosm of wider society, is going. Me, I love 'em and am a co owner to prove it

You certainly live far enough away from Moston to be a genuine fan Attila.

 

[Icy Gull]

Whether or not you feel that the principle aims and ethos of the club are laudable, is pretty much irrelevant to this specific debate. From this case, it looks to the outsider as though they are bullies - a small club, in a small pond, but full of people carrying big club attitudes / baggage. Ultimately they are still United fans.

Exactly

 

[Buzzer]

Brilliant club, set up by dedicated fans with a great attitude fed up with the whole corporate Glazier/modern football bollocks, fans control everything on a one person one vote regardless of investment basis, for me the absolute heart and soul of the way I think football should be run, new stadium in Moston currently under construction and will open next season. I guess your attitude to FCUM will depend on your feelings about how football, and football as a microcosm of wider society, is going. Me, I love 'em and am a co owner to prove it

Hang on. The whole point I thought was to promote grassroots football and a return to people supporting their local side - free from politics and corporate bollocks as you put it. It seems to me that you're actually using them to make a political statement by pretending to 'support' a side you have no connection with geographically nor historically. You're a plastic FCUM fan because of your political views. And people like you giving support to this fake grassroots side completely skews the resources that FCUM have available to them compared to their opponents. It's grossly unfair on other teams in their league that FCUM are latched onto as some sort of English St Pauli and pulling financial clout from across the UK and beyond.

No wonder FCUM can afford the following staff:


1 x manager
3 x coaches
1 x physiotherapist
1 x conditioning coach
1 x nutritionist
2 x kit men
1 x match web report
2 x photographers
2 x radio commentators

Please tell me how this is fair or in the spirit of grassroots football to have a non-league side with so many plastics supporting them?

 

[attila]

As I said above I've hardly ever actually seen them 'cos I will always watch the Albion over anyone else, I'm obvioulsy not an FC United fan in the football sense, just someone who thinks that they represent something really worthwhile and an inspiration to many. As we did, they give help and advice to beleagured supporters of other teams who need it - most recently, for instance, in the formation of 1874 Northwich, the club born from the Archering of my wife's hometown Vics. Like I say, good people.

Posted this before Buzzer's post.....yes, it does seem rather over the top, a bit of piss taking in order But it's hardly relevant to the heart and soul of what they are about.

 

[Buzzer]

As I said above I've hardly ever actually seen them 'cos I will always watch the Albion over anyone else, I'm obvioulsy not an FC United fan in the football sense, just someone who thinks that they represent something really worthwhile and an inspiration to many. As we did, they give help and advice to beleagured supporters of other teams who need it - most recently, for instance, in the formation of 1874 Northwich, the club born from the Archering of my wife's hometown Vics. Like I say, good people.

You've given a club you don't support your money because of your political views. Many others have done the same and now FCUM have vastly superior resources available compared to their opponents. That's not fair at all. You're using footie as a political plaything and small clubs suffer.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Hang on. The whole point I thought was to promote grassroots football and a return to people supporting their local side - free from politics and corporate bollocks as you put it. It seems to me that you're actually using them to make a political statement by pretending to 'support' a side you have no connection with geographically nor historically. You're a plastic FCUM fan because of your political views. And people like you giving support to this fake grassroots side completely skews the resources that FCUM have available to them compared to their opponents. It's grossly unfair on other teams in their league that FCUM are latched onto as some sort of English St Pauli and pulling financial clout from across the UK and beyond.

No wonder FCUM can afford the following staff:


1 x manager
3 x coaches
1 x physiotherapist
1 x conditioning coach
1 x nutritionist
2 x kit men
1 x match web report
2 x photographers
2 x radio commentators

Please tell me how this is fair or in the spirit of grassroots football to have a non-league side with so many plastics supporting them?

How do you know what resources they have compared to others? How do you know out of that list who is paid? At that level, photographers mostly work for free, then sell their shots to fans or the media. Most match reports and radio commentary is done by fan volunteers. Havant & Waterlooville do live commentary, but it is done by 2 fans on an iphone app - it's actually very very good (if anyone had a listen to their match in the Trophy vs Whitehawk last night...?). I don't know what their resources are, but I do remember reading most of their gate receipts pay Bury for the use of their ground. They've struggled to get out of the Unibond Premier, and don't actually think they have any more resource than anyone else in that league, they just have more fans, but have a lot more costs.

 

[Bold Seagull]

You've given a club you don't support your money because of your political views. Many others have done the same and now FCUM have vastly superior resources available compared to their opponents. That's not fair at all. You're using footie as a political plaything and small clubs suffer.

They're raising community to shares to build and own their own ground aren't they? Where is this evidence for vastly superior resources you seem to think they have?

 

[attila]

You've given a club you don't support your money because of your political views. Many others have done the same and now FCUM have vastly superior resources available compared to their opponents. That's not fair at all. You're using footie as a political plaything and small clubs suffer.

Lee, it could be said that all the supporters of other clubs who came to Fans United, joined us on our demos etc were 'using football as a political plaything'...your arguments are a bit reminiscent of the Tories ' notorious 'secondary picketing' legislation
For me there is my love of BHAFC, which is above everything else football related and will be there till I die, and my dislike of the way the game is going in terms of the whole 'modern football' thing. I fully accept that as an upwardly mobile Championship club in 2013 we are part of that model and that doesn't even slightly dampen my feelings towards the Albion. I don't see anything wrong with showing solidarity to people who are taking the path I believe in, even if I don't support their clubs. That's what everyone did when they helped us - they weren't specifically doing it 'cos we're the Albion, they thought they were acting in the wider interests of the game. You may disagree, as is your right

 

[Wozza]

Wimbledon fans decide to form a new team rather than follow Fulham, Palace, Brentford or Chelsea (all VERY easy to get to) and they are lauded for it. FCUM fans do the same thing and people on here moan they don't follow Bury or Stockport, like it's their duty.

HARDLY the same is it? Wimbledon fans set up a REPLACEMENT club after theirs was stolen from them.

And Bury and Stockport are DESPERATE for fans/money.

Manchester doesn't need more pro football teams.

 

[Buzzer]

They're raising community to shares to build and own their own ground aren't they? Where is this evidence for vastly superior resources you seem to think they have?

From their own press guff:

In 2011 the club had over 3500 members who each own one share (non-withdrawable), which entitles them to one vote, and is run on a democratic basis with an elected board of directors. It employs a General Manager and Club Secretary full time along with community programme and team staff on a mostly on a part time basis. FC United also has hundreds of volunteers who contribute to the running of the club. The average crowd is 2,000 – seven times the average for the league.

They've also raised £2 million pounds privately from a share scheme to help build their £5 million new stadium. There are clubs in League Two that can only dream of this kind of clout.

I'm all for support of grassroots football. This isn't it.

 

[User removed 4]

How do you know what resources they have compared to others? How do you know out of that list who is paid? At that level, photographers mostly work for free, then sell their shots to fans or the media. Most match reports and radio commentary is done by fan volunteers. Havant & Waterlooville do live commentary, but it is done by 2 fans on an iphone app - it's actually very very good (if anyone had a listen to their match in the Trophy vs Whitehawk last night...?). I don't know what their resources are, but I do remember reading most of their gate receipts pay Bury for the use of their ground. They've struggled to get out of the Unibond Premier, and don't actually think they have any more resource than anyone else in that league, they just have more fans, but have a lot more costs.

If the photographers you mention dont get paid, but sell the pictures to the fans or media , then why should they get in for free ? You also question whether all the staff on the list are paid , but then go on to claim that fc utd have a lot more costs than most clubs , which would suggest that they are.

 

[Buzzer]

Lee, it could be said that all the supporters of other clubs who came to Fans United, joined us on our demos etc were 'using football as a political plaything'...your arguments are a bit reminiscent of the Tories ' notorious 'secondary picketing' legislation

Cheap shot. You know my involvement with the Plymouth Argyle fight to rescue their club. It's one thing showing solidarity with fans and donating to bucket collections but it's another to buy shares in another club and vote in their AGMs.

 

[Buzzer]

That's brilliant though - fan ownership of football clubs is a great way of doing things, hopefully the Albion will be owned by the fans one day too.

They aspire to be a league team one day, to do that they have to start at the bottom of the pyramid. They have earned their resources and fully deserve any success they have - besides I reckon it's a great advert for grassroots football anyway.

Sigh....but it's on the back of people like Attila trying to build a lower league St Pauli. The whole thing is politically motivated. Once again, it's NOT grassroots football.

 

[Bold Seagull]

If the photographers you mention dont get paid, but sell the pictures to the fans or media , then why should they get in for free ? You also question whether all the staff on the list are paid , but then go on to claim that fc utd have a lot more costs than most clubs , which would suggest that they are.

Within the non-league scene, having a club photographer is seen as an advantage, so you let their photographer in, they let yours in. I doubt any non-league can afford to retain a photographer on staff.

With regard to costs, as I understood it, FCUM pay a large game by game fee to use Bury's ground, to steward it etc. This is a massive expense on top of wages compared to other teams in that level. I cannot know what their other staff costs are, but many professional people in building up experience will work for non-league teams part time or on a voluntary basis with a view of it being good experience. Like I said, I can't know this is the case here.