[News] Fawlty Towers episode removed from UKTV

[Mental Lental]

It seems to me it's mainly unacceptable racial slurs and black face comedy that's now a no-no. Harsh but fair IMO. I can honestly say I'm gonna miss Trading Places and Vic and Bob's Otis Redding stuff that's for sure. There's gonna be some collateral damage with a few fringe cases that probably won't be permanent but I think I'm confident in saying that this episode of FT in it's entirety won't be coming back. It's only the Hitler bits that were funny in that episode anyway and those are all over Youtube. I won't be losing any sleep over it.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You working at all at the mo?

Working at home. Can do a lot on t'internet. Got a paper published recently in 'Nature Scientific Reports'

But mostly skulking, brooding, NSCing, getting fatter, drinking more, staying up too late, sleeping in....but eating well, enjoying the constant company of my family....albeit I don't 'do' on hold. I function best with a cattle prod up my arse and fights to win. This is far far too easy.

How about you?

 

[Weststander]

One thing that does amaze me is the extent that bits of the media establishment is shitting itself. Where is the pressure coming from? Is this a licence fee issue? I doubt that even the more hairy arsed elements in the official 'virtual' organization, BLM (population, 52, plus virtual chums), are even aware of the stuff that's being pulled. Christ, this really is a race to the bottom.

It would be quite funny, though, were it not for the genuine pain here. I listen to R5 a lot and the coverage there has been excellent; nobody pointing at Papalazaru and screaming for a policeman there. But there have been lots of people talking about the shit they have had to live with (Brendon Batson today - and he's far too forgiving and accomodating in my book).

Don't let all this soppy bollocks stuff undermine a good moment in the awakening of the national conscience, please. FFS.

R5 has been good. I prefer it when it’s explained by the victim, rather than a stirring (white) presenter on a belligerent mission to make good in an instant the wrongs of centuries. Trish Goddard on Newsnight tonight was another shocking story with the effect on her kid’s life at school from the Bo’ Selecta parody of her. Even more so, she’s scared to look at the comments section of newspaper articles about her, because of the racist hate towards her as a black celeb.

Onto to your overall point, the media seem to react, possibly overreact, to any of these mood music crisis. From Savile, Me Too, now this. They’re often as bad offenders as anyone else. Black people have come forward this week with stories, did you hear the black actor on the Nicky Campbell show who had once turned up at the BBC, only for the receptionist to assume they were a taxi driver collecting someone ‘important’? With subtle racism facing black actors and wannbee producers.

 

[Eeyore]

The wrongs of the past should not be glorified. But neither should the past be sanitised. Get a grip BBC.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

He either is, or he's a hypocrite. You can't say 'if my jokes offend you, so what? that's comedy!... Your jokes are offensive they need to be banned' And therein lies the problem. Either we accept there is a line where "it's a comedy" isn't a defence for things that offend people, upset people, harm people, in which case we also have to accept we all place that line somewhere differently. Or we say 'anything goes, no one is allowed to be offended if the speaker cries "it's a joke"'.

He's a smart bloke and funny. But his judgement is off. 'Mong' is not funny. With great wealth comes responsibility. He could do with a bit of humility as well. The inbred bumpkin (no offense to him, obviously. The ****. Only joking!)

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The wrongs of the past should not be glorified. But neither should the past be sanitised. Get a grip BBC.

Post of the day.

Well, yesterday.

If you get my drift.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Working at home. Can do a lot on t'internet. Got a paper published recently in 'Nature Scientific Reports'

But mostly skulking, brooding, NSCing, getting fatter, drinking more, staying up too late, sleeping in....but eating well, enjoying the constant company of my family....albeit I don't 'do' on hold. I function best with a cattle prod up my arse and fights to win. This is far far too easy.

How about you?

Lol...working and little else apart from trying to keep my father from sinking into total depression...glimpses of my son who’s been on late shifts dealing with the odd people of Sussex ...and glimpses of grandchildren

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

R5 has been good. I prefer it when it’s explained by the victim, rather than a stirring (white) presenter on a belligerent mission to make good in an instant the wrongs of centuries. Trish Goddard on Newsnight tonight was another shocking story with the effect on her kid’s life at school from the Bo’ Selecta parody of her. Even more so, she’s scared to look at the comments section of newspaper articles about her, because of the racist hate towards her as a black celeb.

Onto to your overall point, the media seem to react, possibly overreact, to any of these mood music crisis. From Savile, Me Too, now this. They’re often as bad offenders as anyone else. Black people have come forward this week with stories, did you hear the black actor on the Nicky Campbell show who had once turned up at the BBC, only for the receptionist to assume they were a taxi driver collecting someone ‘important’. With subtle racism facing black actors and wannbee producers.

Last point, yes indeed. Nicky Campbell manages his programme very well, and some of the stories recently have been quite something. He's being doing this for such a long time (took over from hapless Diana Madill if I'm not wrong) yet is still fresh, smart and human every morning. He's eclipsed Wogan in my estimation.

 

[Washie]

The wrongs of the past should not be glorified. But neither should the past be sanitised. Get a grip BBC.

So saying N****r is okay? Because it's not glorified?

 

[Swansman]

Great way of forcing people into the type aggressive "culture under threat" type of nationalism that often leads to racism in the end.

Shit like this seems harmless or trivial but really could cause several big fat problems such as mass questioning of anti-racism ideals on one hand and/or increasing the acceptance of censorship. The shit is dumb and polarizing and we know from history that trying to exterminate the cultural heritage make people very, very angry with the highly decadent culture of 1920s and 1930s Germany being a prime example.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Lol...working and little else apart from trying to keep my father from sinking into total depression...glimpses of my son who’s been on late shifts dealing with the odd people of Sussex ...and glimpses of grandchildren

Best wishes to you. Only two generations of my family alive....

I'm only 62 but even I keep imagining I can hear the hooves of the horsemen of the apocalypse riding by. So tell the old man that some soppy b'stard in Faversham says 'life's wasted on the living'......

 

[Weststander]

Last point, yes indeed. Nicky Campbell manages his programme very well, and some of the stories recently have been quite something. He's being doing this for such a long time (took over from hapless Diana Madill if I'm not wrong) yet is still fresh, smart and human every morning. He's eclipsed Wogan in my estimation.

We stick up for NC at every NSC turn. I think he’s a class act, I’d love the 9 til 10 phone-in to be twice as long, soppy me is a little bit gutted when it ends. It’s quite funny when Mr Angry from Wakefield is going at it hammer and tong with Ms Arrogant from Islington .... the shouting interrupted by the gentle Scottish tone of NC.

 

[Eeyore]

So saying N****r is okay? Because it's not glorified?

It was acceptable in its time. You cannot educate people who know no better and are in no position to receive your counsel. Thus you are in no position to judge them in the same way as they were in no position to judge you. But you are in a position to cast judgement upon what those ages have handed down to you in the present. Yet you must address context and intent.

So the question would therefore be better asked. Was Fawlty Towers racist ?

The sketch in question is through the image of a bumbling and ignorant old fool and the repressed and angry Fawlty. So the show does not offer credence to the character's values or standards. A bit like Alf Garnett and Rigsby.

Fawlty Towers wasn't racist. But Major Gowen was.

So should it be shown ?

It's 1975, that programme will always be in 1975. I was six years old and may well have already have used the 'N' word by that point. If we are truly to face the realities of where we once were then this sort of production, which has no racist intent must remain accessible. The practice of putting warnings on before such programmes is fitting.

In the same way as you cannot convict someone for past acts by a law that has only appeared in the present, shows such as this should not be sentenced either. This is not to say that some shouldn't be removed. The Black and White Minstrel show should never be shown again because it is actively toxic and of dubious intent. There are grey areas.

But why are many folks that upset ?

From my personal perspective...

The removal of some of these programmes is ripping up our personal history and presenting us as flawed in character. Because of this rightful shift in cultural values, it feels like my childhood is somehow invalidated and I should be ashamed for having inherited the views of the time and also having found stuff like this funny. The two are linked.

You will see from my many entries how much I support this new stream of consciousness. And have supported it for a long time. How much I loved seeing that statue dumped in the drink, how much I believe we need to go further, and how much I hate right wing ideology. Although the pace of enlightenment has varied from one to another. In NSC there still remain some who haven't and will never change.

But no-one, having changed with the shift in cultural consciousness, should be judged, child or adult, for who they were in 1975, and de-facto, that is why I think people are uncomfortable about the removal of shows like this. They feel they are being judged.

 

[Mental Lental]

It was acceptable in its time. You cannot educate people who know no better and are in no position to receive your counsel. Thus you are in no position to judge them in the same way as they were in no position to judge you. But you are in a position to cast judgement upon what those ages have handed down to you in the present. Yet you must address context and intent.

So the question would therefore be better asked. Was Fawlty Towers racist ?

The sketch in question is through the image of a bumbling and ignorant old fool and the repressed and angry Fawlty. So the show does not offer credence to the character's values or standards. A bit like Alf Garnett and Rigsby.

Fawlty Towers wasn't racist. But Major Gowen was.

So should it be shown ?

It's 1975, that programme will always be in 1975. I was six years old and may well have already have used the 'N' word by that point. If we are truly to face the realities of where we once were then this sort of production, which has no racist intent must remain accessible. The practice of putting warnings on before such programmes is fitting.

In the same way as you cannot convict someone for past acts by a law that has only appeared in the present, shows such as this should not be sentenced either. This is not to say that some shouldn't be removed. The Black and White Minstrel show should never be shown again because it is actively toxic and of dubious intent. There are grey areas.

But why are many folks that upset ?

From my personal perspective...

The removal of some of these programmes is ripping up our personal history and presenting us as flawed in character. Because of this rightful shift in cultural values, it feels like my childhood is somehow invalidated and I should be ashamed for having inherited the views of the time and also having found stuff like this funny. The two are linked.

You will see from my many entries how much I support this new stream of consciousness. And have supported it for a long time. How much I loved seeing that statue dumped in the drink, how much I believe we need to go further, and how much I hate right wing ideology. Although the pace of enlightenment has varied from one to another. In NSC there still remain some who haven't and will never change.

But no-one, having changed with the shift in cultural consciousness, should be judged, child or adult, for who they were in 1975, and de-facto, that is why I think people are uncomfortable about the removal of shows like this. They feel they are being judged.

In Fawlty Towers, The Major is there to be a racist old ****, and for us to go - "Wow! Look at that dumb old codger!". However, stupid people (and this may shock you, but there's often a big overlap between stupid people and racists) don't get that the man on the telly is supposed to be laughed at.

They think he's right.

These racist old TV shows need to be taken down lest future generations of idiots forget that The Major's racial slurs are now unacceptable in modern society. It's uncomfortable but we need to adjust our attitudes and stop trying to think up excuses to try and keep accessibility to these shows.

 

[Tokyohands]

If this censorship is happening with comedy shows and old films because of offence possibly being caused, then there are several newspapers that should be pulled off the shelves because they actually do cause offence but aren't even trying to be funny.

Just to clarify that I see all of this as a mahoossif over reaction.

 

[darkwolf666]

So what’s next for the chop? I imagine the Harry Enfield and Paul Whitehouse “is he a quare”? sketches are on borrowed time.

Dads Army, Corporal Jones, fuzzie wuzzies , should see off plenty of episodes.

 

[Palacefinder General]

If this censorship is happening with comedy shows and old films because of offence possibly being caused, then there are several newspapers that should be pulled off the shelves because they actually do cause offence but aren't even trying to be funny.

Just to clarify that I see all of this as a mahoossif over reaction.

Tory rag The Holy Grail is responsible for inflaming and propagating more hate, racism, small-minded, Little Englander bollocks amongst working class pensioners and 40-60-something thick people in this country (the classic closed-minded demographic it targets) than arguably anything else outside of Tommy Robinson or Farage.

 

[dazzer6666]

It was acceptable in its time. You cannot educate people who know no better and are in no position to receive your counsel. Thus you are in no position to judge them in the same way as they were in no position to judge you. But you are in a position to cast judgement upon what those ages have handed down to you in the present. Yet you must address context and intent.

So the question would therefore be better asked. Was Fawlty Towers racist ?

The sketch in question is through the image of a bumbling and ignorant old fool and the repressed and angry Fawlty. So the show does not offer credence to the character's values or standards. A bit like Alf Garnett and Rigsby.

Fawlty Towers wasn't racist. But Major Gowen was.

So should it be shown ?

It's 1975, that programme will always be in 1975. I was six years old and may well have already have used the 'N' word by that point. If we are truly to face the realities of where we once were then this sort of production, which has no racist intent must remain accessible. The practice of putting warnings on before such programmes is fitting.

In the same way as you cannot convict someone for past acts by a law that has only appeared in the present, shows such as this should not be sentenced either. This is not to say that some shouldn't be removed. The Black and White Minstrel show should never be shown again because it is actively toxic and of dubious intent. There are grey areas.

But why are many folks that upset ?

From my personal perspective...

The removal of some of these programmes is ripping up our personal history and presenting us as flawed in character. Because of this rightful shift in cultural values, it feels like my childhood is somehow invalidated and I should be ashamed for having inherited the views of the time and also having found stuff like this funny. The two are linked.

You will see from my many entries how much I support this new stream of consciousness. And have supported it for a long time. How much I loved seeing that statue dumped in the drink, how much I believe we need to go further, and how much I hate right wing ideology. Although the pace of enlightenment has varied from one to another. In NSC there still remain some who haven't and will never change.

But no-one, having changed with the shift in cultural consciousness, should be judged, child or adult, for who they were in 1975, and de-facto, that is why I think people are uncomfortable about the removal of shows like this. They feel they are being judged.

Good post

 

[darkwolf666]

Best wishes to you. Only two generations of my family alive....

I'm only 62 but even I keep imagining I can hear the hooves of the horsemen of the apocalypse riding by. So tell the old man that some soppy b'stard in Faversham says 'life's wasted on the living'......

4 horsemen, bollocks, that’ll be the local travelling community riding their chariots down the Thanet Way...

Oh no, now I have done it, racial stereotype (even if it is regularly true)...

 

[ATFC Seagull]

Massive overreactions from people and being reported really badly.

It's got a horrendous passage where two racial slurs are used, and the big joke is that Major is getting confused over what slurs are correct for which ethnicity. It's aged horrendously, and is in a program that otherwise people of all ages would download and watch. They've pulled the whole episode temporarily, and it will no doubt reappear in due course but without that scene. It won't be erased from history altogether, those of you who think it's of it's time will still be able to watch that scene in all it's inappropriate glory in many places. However, kids today (who won't understand how it "didn't used to be so bad", "the joke's on Major", etc etc) won't see it when their parents/grandparents decide to show them Fawlty Towers.