[News] Farmers

[WATFORD zero]

So these young farmers are going to get their money from where to buy the farm? You cannot expect to run a farm with any profit with less than about 100 acres. What bank is ever going to lend money to a start up business in such a low wealth creation and is known to be high risk.

64% of farms in the UK are under 100 acres (50% under 50 acres).

 

[Bold Seagull]

So these young farmers are going to get their money from where to buy the farm? You cannot expect to run a farm with any profit with less than about 100 acres. What bank is ever going to lend money to a start up business in such a low wealth creation and is known to be high risk.

But a huge portion of farms are 50 acres of less, with 10% or so in different regions under 15 acres. https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/agricultural-facts-england-regional-profiles/agricultural-facts-summary#:~:text=The average English farm size,vary considerably across England's regions.

Let's say £8k per acre, someone could own a 25 acre farm for £200k. That is barely a 2 bed flat in Brighton.

 

[A1X]

People are furious that their cushy little tax loophole is closing.

Film at 11.

 

[BS34 Seagull]

Sky’s coverage of the Farmers protest today.

 

[ROSM]

It's still subjective. He was involved in a radio debate a few weeks ago with a qualified tax expert with some opposing views. Neidle has been great on tax evasion, but that doesn't make him the all seeing eye on all matters taxation.

I didn't say he was. But in the legal terms he is an expert witness.

 

[Since1982]

That's a spite aspect. And many farmers were pro EU.

It's really not spite, it's fact that decisions like Brexit have consequences.

 

[dazzer6666]

But a huge portion of farms are 50 acres of less, with 10% or so in different regions under 15 acres. https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/agricultural-facts-england-regional-profiles/agricultural-facts-summary#:~:text=The average English farm size,vary considerably across England's regions.

Let's say £8k per acre, someone could own a 25 acre farm for £200k. That is barely a 2 bed flat in Brighton.

What about somewhere to live ? Equipment ? Livestock ? Vehicles ?

…..and then when you’ve got all that, 60-80 hours a week, on call 24/7 to make - in most cases - very little money.

 

[RandyWanger]

A lot of people woke up and took the blue pill again I see.

 

[CheeseRolls]

Just a few bullet points from me.

• Is food less secure when produced by a tenant farmer rather than a land owning farmer?
• Do sugar beet and grouse moors contribute to food security?
• Understanding that farming is a 7 day a week and seasonal business. Why is there no time anywhere in the year to think about succession planning. It seems like it should be a priority, maybe even a higher priority than driving to that London on a tractor.
• Why do I wake up to Farming Today on the radio, when day after day all they ever have on is moaning farmers?

 

[Weststander]

It's really not spite, it's fact that decisions like Brexit have consequences.

Farmers would've voted in different ways. It's mentioned in a spiteful, not cerebral, way in these recent discussions about IHT. In the same way that 2.38m pensioners should be cold this winter because more of the older demographic voted for Brexit, payback,

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

But a huge portion of farms are 50 acres of less, with 10% or so in different regions under 15 acres. https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/agricultural-facts-england-regional-profiles/agricultural-facts-summary#:~:text=The average English farm size,vary considerably across England's regions.

Let's say £8k per acre, someone could own a 25 acre farm for £200k. That is barely a 2 bed flat in Brighton.

Huge amount of farms rent further land from large land owners. Also many of these small farms are hobby farms, such as mine were. They still produce but small scale. Many like mine never make a penny profit.

The average farm is over 200 acres.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I have very little sympathy for farmers being outside of any inheritance tax.

However, I do not like the Government fiddling around the edges with using taxes which are highly targeted to certain groups. Bite the bullet and put 1p on income tax instead and share the load.

I'd support that.

Sadly about 30 million would be howling for blood, and Labour wouldn't have been elected anyway had that been in the manifesto, and we'd have tiny Sunk grinning about the place, still.

What this nation wants is low taxes, It is what the nation has been indoctrinated into expecting. It is the warm reward for all the other tomfoolery a government pursues.

Ironic that total tax burden went up under the Tories (albeit a lot of this was due to Covid - not their fault and, er, Brixit, which was). And yet they are still successfully presenting themselves as the party of low tax.

I regret that Labour are having to pick off soft targets while hoping the rest of the nation won't notice, but it is what we appear to want.

And just imagine if Labour decide to risk a tax increase across the board in their manifesto in four and a half years? They will be defenestrated.

As always we get the governments we deserve.

 

[fly high]

Environmentalists blocking roads to protest against Climate Change and over-reliance on cars > arrests and prison.

Farmers blocking roads to protest against Inheritance Tax > fawning and forelock-tugging.

A two-tier police and justice system.

Very few of them ended up in prison & only arrested after weeks of protest.

 

[CheeseRolls]

I'd support that.

Sadly about 30 million would be howling for blood, and Labour wouldn't have been elected anyway had that been in the manifesto, and we'd have tiny Sunk grinning about the place, still.

What this nation wants is low taxes, It is what the nation has been indoctrinated into expecting. It is the warm reward for all the other tomfoolery a government pursues.

Ironic that total tax burden went up under the Tories (albeit a lot of this was due to Covid - not their fault and, er, Brixit, which was). And yet they are still successfully presenting themselves as the party of low tax.

I regret that Labour are having to pick off soft targets while hoping the rest of the nation won't notice, but it is what we appear to want.

And just imagine if Labour decide to risk a tax increase across the board in their manifesto in four and a half years? They will be defenestrated.

As always we get the governments we deserve.

Pilling more on income tax is a terrible idea. There is a complete inbalance between earned income and unearned income and this for me is a step in the right direction. I hope there are more measures to follow and that unltimately tax paid on income will begin to fall.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Please detail these mitigations you speak of.

Just scroll back through this thread....

 

[Bold Seagull]

Huge amount of farms rent further land from large land owners. Also many of these small farms are hobby farms, such as mine were. They still produce but small scale. Many like mine never make a penny profit.

The average farm is over 200 acres.

I'm not disputing how hard it is, but there has to be an aspiration for young people not born into a farm can become farm owners? I'm merely suggesting this IHT rule potentially helps that not hinders it.

I'm not seeing much in the way of articles about how young people can be bought into farming other than inheritance.

We can go back to Clarkson's Farm in a good light, Kaleb clearly worked his arse off farming for him and his young family with an aspiration to run his own farm, while Clarkson sits on 1000 acres because he doesn't want to pay any IHT...

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Average age of a farmer in this country is 59, 33% are over 65. Most work every day of the year, long hours, most well below minimum wage and many on their own.

Just from my experience when I farmed, I made about £25 profit per pig and £18 per lamb.

There's already a crisis in farming in getting young people to work the land. Those that do inherit the family farm, where margins are so low will now be put under further financial pressure. Easy for these townies to say sell some of your land then not understanding that all the land is needed just to scrape a living.

To suddenly change the rules doesn't leave the average farmer of 59 to plan for the farms future.

At a time when we all should be looking for local sourced food this government is putting a lot of these businesses under huge pressure.

It is without doubt a very damaging policy.

When people on the radio or TV bang on about Clarkson are totally missing the point and also not listening to what he says. He, to many is just a millionaire idiot. He does though highlight the very issue faced by many many farmers. The red tape, how hard it is to make a profit. He can afford it many can't. He actually does far more good in educating people than say Countryfile that views the countryside as honey and milk.

Sorry HWT you are very wrong.

All changes are sudden by definition.

When their introduction is arranged over years then the impact can be mitigated, as others have explained.

So I am not 'wrong'.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

A very simplistic view

It was not a flippant post and a lot of the mitigations I refer to are covered in this thread. Above all, I just think it's fair.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

But a huge portion of farms are 50 acres of less, with 10% or so in different regions under 15 acres. https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/agricultural-facts-england-regional-profiles/agricultural-facts-summary#:~:text=The average English farm size,vary considerably across England's regions.

Let's say £8k per acre, someone could own a 25 acre farm for £200k. That is barely a 2 bed flat in Brighton.

https://www.uklandandfarms.co.uk/rural-properties-for-sale/south-east/kent/page-2/

Dream on

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

If your property was your means of running your business that is handed to your family, then the need to sell to pay iht is the end of that business.

Not a business model I'd embrace.

I wonder how it works for a fisherman who own a boat and wants to pass it on to his son?

Would he be exempt if his boat was worth less than a million quid?