Far-Right National Front Stuns French Elite With EU 'Earthquake'

[Buzzer]

But getting out of Europe will take 3-5 years min and I dread to think how long it would take to re-negotiate the trading and economic agreements not to mention the time, money and effort. The economy is the biggest issue facing the country now and it should come first. I appreciate the two go hand-in-hand but short term you need to get the economy working and short term this will have to be within the current system.

So...to summarise the case for the EU: Money is everything. The notion of self-determination means nothing. The institutional corruption at the heart of the EU and permeating every part of it doesn't matter as long as corporations can trade easily. Money! Money! Money!

And what of those at the bottom of the pile worried about immigrants coming in and taking their jobs for less money, on zero hour contracts and with no worker rights? Well - if you're too thick to hold down a job that an immigrant could take...well, tough shit. I don't think you've said that, in fairness HT, but many have on here. El P said precisely that, this morning.

Where's the principles? Where's the desire for social fairness and not leaving those at the bottom of the pile to rot?

Hark at me writing this to a self-confessed socialist. It's like the end of Orwell's Animal Farm where the animals are watching Napoleon and Mr Pilkington playing cards and cannot tell the two apart.

 

[Leighgull]

No. The NF target the uneducated and ill-informed. It's nothing about slinging insults. I'm not having a go at people who vote UKIP (who I also disagree with), but voting the NF is the lowest of the low

That is patent bollocks. The Front National is not the party of the uneducated and misinformed. I've been following the rebrand under marine le pen and they are very much going for the affluent educated middle classes these days.

Lazy ignorance will not defeat the far right.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

Yes, for the most part I agree about the voting motivations of UKIP supporters. However my point still stands about party politics regarding the other mainstream parties. Surely you don't suppose that ALL conservative, labour and liberal voters would vote to stay in the eu simply because they didn't vote UKIP in this election?

I don't know but they certainly had the option for a "NO" vote and chose not to take it.

 

[beorhthelm]

Totally agree on this, if people think it is that simple to disband the EU they are literally on another planet.

no one (outside UKIP) is talking about disbandment or completely leaving the EU. there is however alot of debate across europe about restructuring and renegotiating EU. last week i read 50% population over the whole of EU believe the EU needs renegotiating. now, its not 50% in each country and different countries have different views on what negotiation means. but the direction is clear. even Germany are closer aligned to this idea that some seem to want to acknowledge (recall Merkel and Cameron getting on rather well?).

Fact is, with some being in and out of the Euro, those in club Med being technically bankrupt while others in the north have their economies held back, the EU is already a two or three tier operation. the results of these elections will accelerate a movement to change the machinery and direction of the EU (i.e. away from federalised state) in order to not provoke further disharmony towards the EU which might lead to complete breakdown.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

So...to summarise the case for the EU: Money is everything. The notion of self-determination means nothing. The institutional corruption at the heart of the EU and permeating every part of it doesn't matter as long as corporations can trade easily. Money! Money! Money!

And what of those at the bottom of the pile worried about immigrants coming in and taking their jobs for less money, on zero hour contracts and with no worker rights? Well - if you're too thick to hold down a job that an immigrant could take...well, tough shit. I don't think you've said that, in fairness HT, but many have on here. El P said precisely that, this morning.

Where's the principles? Where's the desire for social fairness and not leaving those at the bottom of the pile to rot?

Hark at me writing this to a self-confessed socialist. It's like the end of Orwell's Animal Farm where the animals are watching Napoleon and Mr Pilkington playing cards and cannot tell the two apart.

Ah, but you know as well as I do that HT likes to combine his socialism with a certain amount of elitism. That is why he'll be pretty shocked to find himself lined up against the wall come the glorious day.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You've already posted that CMD won't get the changes required - how does that make us influential ? We're not.

Cameron wants his cake and wants to eat it. What he wants is clearly not going to happen. No one can negotiate on the 4 basic principles which is the freedom of movement of labour, services, capital and goods. So operate and become more influentual within the current set up/parameters and make things work for you instead of moaning and bleating about everything. Because when it does work for you it can work very well.

 

[Notters]

Those celebrating the death of Europe do realise that UKIP only got 27% of the vote right? And this included a massive protest vote. I really cannot imagine a situation where more than about 30% would vote us out of the EU in a referendum so I can't quite see what you're celebrating. we're European and that's the way we'll stay.

 

[dougdeep]

Those celebrating the death of Europe do realise that UKIP only got 27% of the vote right? And this included a massive protest vote. I really cannot imagine a situation where more than about 30% would vote us out of the EU in a referendum so I can't quite see what you're celebrating. we're European and that's the way we'll stay.

Clutch those straws Notters. Oh, and thanks for the thumbs down, it contrasts nicely with the full page of green thumbs.

 

[Buzzer]

Ah, but you know as well as I do that HT likes to combine his socialism with a certain amount of elitism. That is why he'll be pretty shocked to find himself lined up against the wall come the glorious day.

You're right of course. History is littered with examples. Robespierre, Trotsky, Rohm, The Gang of Four, Snowball...

No doubt he will outlast me though. I'm the archetypal White Russian counter-revolutionary destined to inglorious failure.

 

[Soulman]

Have those groups been causing trouble in Sweden recently, or in Denmark?

Crikey Martyn, where have you been. Perhaps take a look at what is happening in Denmark and Sweden. I'll give you a pointer, just google Malmo in Sweden, the no go areas etc. It's not a recent phenomenon, the open door policy has attracted SOME bad immigrants, a certain section so as not to tar all immigrants as bad.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

And what of those at the bottom of the pile worried about immigrants coming in and taking their jobs for less money, on zero hour contracts and with no worker rights? Well - if you're too thick to hold down a job that an immigrant could take...well, tough shit. I don't think you've said that, in fairness HT, but many have on here. El P said precisely that, this morning.

Where's the principles? Where's the desire for social fairness and not leaving those at the bottom of the pile to rot?
.

This is unfair. I have posted a lot about my desire for social fairness. And I am very much against zero hours contracts and have previously posted about raising the minimum wage and we have both previously agreed on the notion that if a business cannot afford to pay it staff a living wage then it is not a viable concern. If there is a decent living wage which is rigourously enforced then immigrants will not be able to undercut. That said there does need to be competition in the work place but if the living wage is enforced then the competiton comes down to the talent of the applicant...which is only fair in my opinion.

And on of the reasons why I support the EU is because of workers rights.

 

[beorhthelm]

Those celebrating the death of Europe do realise that UKIP only got 27% of the vote right? And this included a massive protest vote.

yes it is largely a protest vote. the point you may have overlooked is it wasnt just in the UK, anti-EU or non-europhile parties across Europe done well. its not just little englanders protesting, little frenchman etc. protesting too.

 

[Notters]

Clutch those straws Notters. Oh, and thanks for the thumbs down, it contrasts nicely with the full page of green thumbs.

I generally agree with what you say Doug, but I've seen no evidence anywhere that the majority of people want to leave the EU. Even my nsc IN/OUT poll came in at about 72 % to 28 %. If you've got any evidence to the contrary then I'd love you to share it.

 

[Notters]

yes it is largely a protest vote. the point you may have overlooked is it wasnt just in the UK, anti-EU or non-europhile parties across Europe done well. its not just little englanders protesting, little frenchman etc. protesting too.

Very true but in similar proportions, no?

 

[Soulman]

Keep burying your head in the sand.

Is there an ostrich smiley on NSC?

 

[Buzzer]

This is unfair. I have posted a lot about my desire for social fairness. And I am very much against zero hours contracts and have previously posted about raising the minimum wage and we have both previously agreed on the notion that if a business cannot afford to pay it staff a living wage then it is not a viable concern. If there is a decent living wage which is rigourously enforced then immigrants will not be able to undercut. That said there does need to be competition in the work place but if the living wage is enforced then the competiton comes down to the talent of the applicant...which is only fair in my opinion.

And on of the reasons why I support the EU is because of workers rights.

Hang on. I did acknowledge that you hadn't made comments about the most vulnerable workers and yes, we do agree broadly on workers' rights. My question was more a rhetorical one rather than at you specifically. But I do think it's an important point. But the comment about money is aimed at you and all those pro-EU people who keep going on about how easy it is for corporations to trade. Is it really worth selling your soul to Mammon just so that you have less paperwork when trading with other countries?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Ah, but you know as well as I do that HT likes to combine his socialism with a certain amount of elitism. That is why he'll be pretty shocked to find himself lined up against the wall come the glorious day.

History will absolve me.

 

[Buzzer]

History will absolve me.

History is bunk.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Hang on. I did acknowledge that you hadn't made comments about the most vulnerable workers and yes, we do agree broadly on workers' rights. My question was more a rhetorical one rather than at you specifically. But I do think it's an important point. But the comment about money is aimed at you and all those pro-EU people who keep going on about how easy it is for corporations to trade. Is it really worth selling your soul to Mammon just so that you have less paperwork when trading with other countries?

I do believe in ease of trade and at the moment I do put the economy high on my agenda as I am sure many do. But I have never said it is just for the benefit of corporations. It helps many one man band sole-trader types as much as it does huge companies. In fact I was with a guy on Friday night who is based in the UK, runs a little shop but exports his goods to the EU via the internet. His small enterprise benefits enormously from the EU. The export side and exposure to the EU is what keeps him going as the footfall to his shop is minimal.

 

[Buzzer]

I do believe in ease of trade and at the moment I do put the economy high on my agenda as I am sure many do. But I have never said it is just for the benefit of corporations. It helps many one man band sole-trader types as much as it does huge companies. In fact I was with a guy on Friday night who is based in the UK, runs a little shop but exports his goods to the EU via the internet. His small enterprise benefits enormously from the EU. The export side and exposure to the EU is what keeps him going as the footfall to his shop is minimal.

I don't think that trading with EU countries and being outside the EU will be particularly onerous nor cost-prohibitive. We seem to do quite well as it is with those presently outside the EU. And likewise, leaving the EU doesn't mean that it's an end to workers' rights or a minimum wage.