[Albion] Fans' Forum follow-up on the season ticket sharing scheme

[Baldseagull]

The club projected they would be left with a substantial amount of unsold tickets - they estimated the bill to the club for that would be around 50K (it might have been more , it might have been less and closer to the 33K you suggest but PB suggested it was something like the equivalent of 2 jobs) - Jenny Gower who was on the Zoom call with Paul Barber the other evening is the Head of Supporter Services and clearly had spent a lot of time going through multiple projections like you above concluding pros and cons of 5,700 tickets vs 9000. Obviously it would have been easier if Spurs had allowed us to land at something like 7000. But they didn't. See [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] for other explanations in this thread about how they came to that conclusions. Her email if you want to make the case to her is supporter.services@brightonandhovealbion.com
Club perhaps understandably don't - from what i could tell from that call - agree that losing £33K or £50K on something like this is ok

Or 1 Month Paul Barber's wage.
I get it, club don't want to throw money away, and estimating demand is tricky, FA cup revenues are paltry compared to PL games.

3300 Tickets at £25 would cost £82,500, however 45% of that revenue would be due to Brighton, £37,125. So the loss on taking those extra seats if we did not sell a single one, would be £45,375. So what Barbs is saying is, the club didn't think we would sell out the 5700 we took.

 

[Bry Nylon]

…this Jenny character made a blunder end of.

Depends on your perspective I suppose. She has shifted every single ticket she bought and the club haven’t incurred a financial loss.

 

[Deleted member 37369]

Is it automatic, or an opt-in? I can't remember.

(I mean, being added to the season ticket waiting list)

I've seen this mentioned on here a few times - Albion+ members being added to season ticket waiting list.

I'm sure you are correct that you need to opt in - it's not automatic. I signed my two lads up last summer and can remember having to tick a box (or something like that) to join the list.

So it's not a club ploy to inflate the waiting list numbers.

 

[Justice]

Depends on your perspective I suppose. She has shifted every single ticket she bought and the club haven’t incurred a financial loss.

I could accept decision if they hadn’t gone back to Spurs asking for more tickets which suggests they under estimated the demand.

 

[Weststander]

Apart from Man U in this country, football is not a business. The financial metrics wouldn't work in any other type of company anywhere. Look at wages/turnover for example.

Virtually every club is loss making. Its all about enhancing the value of the club in question by doing well in the EPL and hopefully getting into Europe. Or laundering money like Newcastle.

Albion have no debt, but it depends how you measure it. We wouldn't be a sustainable operation without TB, no matter how you present it.

It’s a mixed picture.

Pre-pandemic, Spuds, Liverpool and Newcastle were also brilliantly run businesses.

Not going down the Chelsea, Everton and Villa route of trying to buy trophies with financial doping.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

I could accept decision if they hadn’t gone back to Spurs asking for more tickets which suggests they under estimated the demand.

Did you listen to the full explanation on the forum? Nobody underestimated demand. The club had 4 days to make a decision and used several criteria to do so. The tickets sold slowly. The reasons were explained. They went back to Spurs for a different number than the full 9000 after the sell out, but were told no. I think if you heard all the debate which went on for about 10 minutes, you would find the decision easier to accept. Personally, I believe the club did all it could to meet the club's needs to not lose money and the the fan's needs to go to the game.

 

[Invicta]

1000 empty seats would be £25k loss to the club however, it could have been 2000 empty seats and all of a sudden it's £50k loss. That said, the club could have looked at it as a bonus game in which they get 45% of net revenue anyway. For argument's sake, roughly 60k x £25 x 45% = £675k although I know you need to take in to account VAT and expenses. Chuck in the £82k for beating WBA and another £90k for brushing Spuds aside. The club, assuming they didn't budget for winning rnd 3 means they are quids in.

I doubt anyone forecasting a 4th round FA Cup tie for a Premier League club considers it a bonus game. Hope our accounting a bit more professional than that these days.

 

[Justice]

Did you listen to the full explanation on the forum? Nobody underestimated demand. The club had 4 days to make a decision and used several criteria to do so. The tickets sold slowly. The reasons were explained. They went back to Spurs for a different number than the full 9000 after the sell out, but were told no. I think if you heard all the debate which went on for about 10 minutes, you would find the decision easier to accept. Personally, I believe the club did all it could to meet the club's needs to not lose money and the the fan's needs to go to the game.

Well it ruined our day out and someone is taking the blame

 

[drew]

I doubt anyone forecasting a 4th round FA Cup tie for a Premier League club considers it a bonus game. Hope our accounting a bit more professional than that these days.

Really? The club cannot guarantee anything other than a third round tie and even then you can't budget for the income. You could be playing away at Tottenham in the third round or away at Blyth Spartans. Resulting in two very different levels of income. So on that basis, the cup is very much bonus money.

 

[drew]

All this we don’t want to waste Tony’s money grinds on me, firstly it’s a Ltd company, it’s the companies money and secondly football clubs are vastly different to a run of the mill business.

Sorry, that's utter tosh. TB covers the loses so any lost income the club doesn't achieve he has to cover at the end of the year. If he didn't, we either be insolvent or playing in League Two with a budget to match.

 

[South west gull]

Well it ruined our day out and someone is taking the blame

I don't believe they went back to spurs and asked for more tickets.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

 

[Justice]

Sorry, that's utter tosh. TB covers the loses so any lost income the club doesn't achieve he has to cover at the end of the year. If he didn't, we either be insolvent or playing in League Two with a budget to match.

What’s utter tosh? That’s how Ltd companies work it’s a separate legal entity all the money in the Ltd company account belongs to the company. You can say we didn’t want to waste the companies money on Spurs tickets you can’t say we didn’t want to waste Tony Blooms money on Spurs tickets which they did say.

 

[drew]

What’s utter tosh? That’s how Ltd companies work it’s a separate legal entity all the money in the Ltd company account belongs to the company. You can say we didn’t want to waste the companies money on Spurs tickets you can’t say we didn’t want to waste Tony Blooms money on Spurs tickets which they did say.

Think we all understand what a limited company is but perhaps you could explain why we aren't in administration then when we have made losses all the time we have been at the Amex and probably at the Withdean as well? Could it just be we have a very rich benefactor that props up the club?

So when the 'company' makes a bigger loss, that's a bigger hole in TBs pocket when he has to make up the shortfall. I'm pretty certain that's how it works but I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Bozza]

I don't believe they went back to spurs and asked for more tickets.

You may not believe it but they did, several times, but unfortunately nothing could be worked out with Spurs due to the stadium configuration and presence of Spurs' season ticket holders in those extra seats.

Again, I'm not sure why people seem to want to think that those working at the club are anti-fan, as some seem to be suggesting. In all of my dealings with the club, I only see people doing their utmost, within the realms of what is possible, for us all.

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

You may not believe it but they did, several times, but unfortunately nothing could be worked out with Spurs due to the stadium configuration and presence of Spurs' season ticket holders in those extra seats.

Again, I'm not sure why people seem to want to think that those working at the club are anti-fan, as some seem to be suggesting. In all of my dealings with the club, I only see people doing their utmost, within the realms of what may is possible, for us all.

People just like to moan and think they could do a better job!

 

[Pondicherry]

Well, this covers the law, and is the starting point for all club's T&Cs.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/33/section/166

It's a criminal offence to even give away a football ticket in England (without permission of the issuing club).

Thanks yes I agree it depends on the permission of the club in the Terms and Conditions. This is prohibited in the Ts & Cs for Brighton season tickets. However, Terms and Conditions have to be fair and reasonable. Is it fair and reasonable that if I have paid for a season ticket, I can't on occasion give it to a friend or family member. I am not sure how well this would stand up in court if challenged particularly as the club do allow the transfer of use of other types of tickets. I think that the arguments around cost to the club are a deliberate distraction here. No one is denying that Tony Bloom has put vast sums of money into the club or that in general the club is very well run. We are all very lucky. However, fundamentally, I think that if I buy something (at a considerable cost - this is not a minor purchase) I should within reason be able to use that purchase how I like. This includes letting a friend or family member occasionally use a season ticket.

 

[South west gull]

You may not believe it but they did, several times, but unfortunately nothing could be worked out with Spurs due to the stadium configuration and presence of Spurs' season ticket holders in those extra seats.

Again, I'm not sure why people seem to want to think that those working at the club are anti-fan, as some seem to be suggesting. In all of my dealings with the club, I only see people doing their utmost, within the realms of what is possible, for us all.

Am I right in thinking spurs put on sale at the same time as we did our extra tickets ?

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

 

[amexer]

So you want the flexibility and added benefits that 1901 membership offers but you want to pay ST prices? Okay.

The only part of 1902 T & Cs I am referring to is the sharing of tickets.

 

[Seaview Seagull]

The only part of 1902 T & Cs I am referring to is the sharing of tickets.

Apart from the accidental year change you are confirming you want a benefit at no charge.

 

[dazzer6666]

Thanks yes I agree it depends on the permission of the club in the Terms and Conditions. This is prohibited in the Ts & Cs for Brighton season tickets. However, Terms and Conditions have to be fair and reasonable. Is it fair and reasonable that if I have paid for a season ticket, I can't on occasion give it to a friend or family member. I am not sure how well this would stand up in court if challenged particularly as the club do allow the transfer of use of other types of tickets. I think that the arguments around cost to the club are a deliberate distraction here. No one is denying that Tony Bloom has put vast sums of money into the club or that in general the club is very well run. We are all very lucky. However, fundamentally, I think that if I buy something (at a considerable cost - this is not a minor purchase) I should within reason be able to use that purchase how I like. This includes letting a friend or family member occasionally use a season ticket.

You signed up for it on the basis is was strictly and clearly non-transferable, so you’d have no case