Falmer - The Future Capacity?

[GoldWithFalmer]

We knew full well 22k was never big enough.
We may not fill it week in week out.
But if we want to reach the Premiership 30k is a minimum.
We don't need Falmer we never sold out Withdean.
We don't need 30k because we might need more.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

(More importantly than this pie in the sky, is the reality of getting 22500supporters, one way or the other, into and out of the Amex in a reasonable time period.)

This is my concern too-

 

[DT Withdean]

Football attendances in 1985/86 when there were far fewer distractions 16.5 million.

In 2009/10 30.1 million, despite higher pricing.

To mention just a few, due to larger grounds; Southampton, Manure, Derby, Leicester, Newcastle, Huddersfield, Norwich, Hull, Sunderland .... get average crowds they wouldn't have dreamt of 1995/96.

The same might well happen to a well-run Albion in the great new stadium if ticketing stays affordable.

Football has become even more of a national obsession.

 

[Jimmy's gonna get ya!]

Just to put 32.5k in perspective. Take a look at the list of english stadium in order of capacity....

List of football stadiums in England - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We would be top 20 largest stadium in Engalnd, and bigger than Blackburn, Birmingham, Wolves, Bolton, Stoke, West Brom, Blackpool, QPR etc etc

 

[Uter]

In these calculations it must be remembered that when we were in the 1st Division last time, the only time, not once including the first game at home to Arsenal did we have a crowd of over 30,000 and that was when attendances at football were higher than now

It's true we never achieved a 30000+ crowd in the first division, but it's not true that crowds were higher then. Even taking into account there are 2 fewer teams in the top flight now, the average is much higher now. So by that same logic we should also be able to achieve crowds much higher now than then:

2009-2010

FA Barclaycard Premiership

Club Average
1 Manchester United 74.864
2 Arsenal 59.927
3 Manchester City 45.513
4 Liverpool 42.864
5 Chelsea 41.423
6 Sunderland 40.355
7 Aston Villa 38.573
8 Everton 36.725
9 Tottenham Hotspur 35.794
10 West Ham United 33.683
11 Wolverhampton Wanderers 28.366
12 Stoke City 27.162
13 Blackburn Rovers 25.428
14 Birmingham City 25.246
15 Hull City 24.390
16 Fulham 23.909
17 Bolton Wanderers 21.881
18 Burnley 20.654
19 Portsmouth 18.249
20 Wigan Athletic 18.006
Total 34.151

Division One 1982-1983
Club Average
1 Manchester United 41.695
2 Liverpool 34.758
3 Tottenham Hotpsur 30.581
4 Manchester City 26.789
5 Arsenal 24.153
6 Aston Villa 23.748
7 West Ham United 22.822
8 Everton 20.277
9 Ipswich Town 19.503
10 Watford 19.488
11 Southampton 18.799
12 Nottingham Forest 17.851
13 Sunderland 17.370
14 Norwich City 16.862
15 Stoke City 16.622
16 Birmingham City 15.638
17 West Bromwich Albion 15.200
18 Brighton & Hove Albion 14.662
19 Luton Town 13.452
20 Swansea City 11.704
21 Coventry City 10.552
22 Notts County 10.265
Total 20.127

Division One 1981-1982
Club Average
1 Manchester United 44.571
2 Tottenham Hotpsur 35.100
3 Liverpool 35.061
4 Manchester City 34.063
5 Aston Villa 26.780
6 West Ham United 26.585
7 Arsenal 25.589
8 Everton 24.674
9 Leeds United 22.109
10 Ipswich Town 21.925
11 Southampton 21.835
12 Nottingham Forest 19.937
13 Sunderland 19.608
14 Brighton & Hove Albion 18.244
15 Swansea City 18.226
16 Birmingham City 17.117
17 West Bromwich Albion 16.786
18 Wolverhampton Wanderers 15.242
19 Stoke City 14.635
20 Middlesbrough 13.413
21 Coventry City 13.100
22 Notts County 11.613
Total 22.555

Division One 1980-1981
Club Average
1 Manchester United 45.071
2 Liverpool 37.547
3 Aston Villa 34.117
4 Manchester City 33.587
5 Arsenal 32.480
6 Tottenham Hotpsur 30.724
7 Sunderland 26.477
8 Everton 26.105
9 Ipswich Town 24.619
10 Nottingham Forest 24.483
11 Wolverhampton Wanderers 21.551
12 Southampton 21.482
13 Leeds United 21.377
14 West Bromwich Albion 20.331
15 Leicester City 19.476
16 Crystal Palace 19.280
17 Birmingham City 19.248
18 Brighton & Hove Albion 18.984
19 Norwich City 17.140
20 Coventry City 16.904
21 Middlesbrough 16.432
22 Stoke City 15.580
Total 24.682

Division One 1979-1980
Club Average
1 Manchester United 51.608
2 Liverpool 44.586
3 Manchester City 35.272
4 Arsenal 33.596
5 Tottenham Hotpsur 32.018
6 Crystal Palace 29.794
7 Everton 28.711
8 Aston Villa 27.976
9 Nottingham Forest 26.360
10 Wolverhampton Wanderers 25.731
11 Brighton & Hove Albion 24.745
12 Leeds United 22.788
13 West Bromwich Albion 22.418
14 Ipswich Town 21.620
15 Southampton 21.335
16 Stoke City 20.176
17 Derby County 19.904
18 Coventry City 19.315
19 Bristol City 18.932
20 Middlesbrough 18.739
21 Norwich City 17.225
22 Bolton Wanderers 16.353
Total 26.327

 

[Uter]

And just out of interest (for all the attendance nerds out there) the highest ever top division average crowds were seen in 1948-49.

Division One 1948-1949
Club Average
1 Newcastle United 53.839
2 Arsenal 51.478
3 Manchester United 48.808
4 Aston Villa 47.320
5 Chelsea 46.362
6 Sunderland 45.220
7 Everton 45.138
8 Liverpool 44.031
9 Wolverhampton Wanderers 43.690
10 Charlton Athletic 40.216
11 Manchester City 38.699
12 Birmingham City 38.453
13 Portsmouth 37.082
14 Sheffield United 34.387
15 Middlesbrough 34.292
16 Bolton Wanderers 34.113
17 Preston North End 33.226
18 Burnley 30.290
19 Stoke City 29.948
20 Derby County 29.798
21 Blackpool 24.882
22 Huddersfield Town 22.151
Total 38.792

 

[Superseagull]

Maybe we should have put the concrete in for the second tier of the East stand in this phase of construction as per MK Dons. The extra cost would have been relatively small during the full stadium build compared with adding it in the future as a separate job. If they do the second tier of the east stand I guess the roof will have to come off so that the concrete sections get lowered in or can they be fitted without touching the roof? Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

 

[DT Withdean]

It's true we never achieved a 30000+ crowd in the first division, but it's not true that crowds were higher then. Even taking into account there are 2 fewer teams in the top flight now, the average is much higher now. So by that same logic we should also be able to achieve crowds much higher now than then:

2009-2010

FA Barclaycard Premiership

Club Average
1 Manchester United 74.864
2 Arsenal 59.927
3 Manchester City 45.513
4 Liverpool 42.864
5 Chelsea 41.423
6 Sunderland 40.355
7 Aston Villa 38.573
8 Everton 36.725
9 Tottenham Hotspur 35.794
10 West Ham United 33.683
11 Wolverhampton Wanderers 28.366
12 Stoke City 27.162
13 Blackburn Rovers 25.428
14 Birmingham City 25.246
15 Hull City 24.390
16 Fulham 23.909
17 Bolton Wanderers 21.881
18 Burnley 20.654
19 Portsmouth 18.249
20 Wigan Athletic 18.006
Total 34.151

Division One 1982-1983
Club Average
1 Manchester United 41.695
2 Liverpool 34.758
3 Tottenham Hotpsur 30.581
4 Manchester City 26.789
5 Arsenal 24.153
6 Aston Villa 23.748
7 West Ham United 22.822
8 Everton 20.277
9 Ipswich Town 19.503
10 Watford 19.488
11 Southampton 18.799
12 Nottingham Forest 17.851
13 Sunderland 17.370
14 Norwich City 16.862
15 Stoke City 16.622
16 Birmingham City 15.638
17 West Bromwich Albion 15.200
18 Brighton & Hove Albion 14.662
19 Luton Town 13.452
20 Swansea City 11.704
21 Coventry City 10.552
22 Notts County 10.265
Total 20.127

Division One 1981-1982
Club Average
1 Manchester United 44.571
2 Tottenham Hotpsur 35.100
3 Liverpool 35.061
4 Manchester City 34.063
5 Aston Villa 26.780
6 West Ham United 26.585
7 Arsenal 25.589
8 Everton 24.674
9 Leeds United 22.109
10 Ipswich Town 21.925
11 Southampton 21.835
12 Nottingham Forest 19.937
13 Sunderland 19.608
14 Brighton & Hove Albion 18.244
15 Swansea City 18.226
16 Birmingham City 17.117
17 West Bromwich Albion 16.786
18 Wolverhampton Wanderers 15.242
19 Stoke City 14.635
20 Middlesbrough 13.413
21 Coventry City 13.100
22 Notts County 11.613
Total 22.555

Division One 1980-1981
Club Average
1 Manchester United 45.071
2 Liverpool 37.547
3 Aston Villa 34.117
4 Manchester City 33.587
5 Arsenal 32.480
6 Tottenham Hotpsur 30.724
7 Sunderland 26.477
8 Everton 26.105
9 Ipswich Town 24.619
10 Nottingham Forest 24.483
11 Wolverhampton Wanderers 21.551
12 Southampton 21.482
13 Leeds United 21.377
14 West Bromwich Albion 20.331
15 Leicester City 19.476
16 Crystal Palace 19.280
17 Birmingham City 19.248
18 Brighton & Hove Albion 18.984
19 Norwich City 17.140
20 Coventry City 16.904
21 Middlesbrough 16.432
22 Stoke City 15.580
Total 24.682

Division One 1979-1980
Club Average
1 Manchester United 51.608
2 Liverpool 44.586
3 Manchester City 35.272
4 Arsenal 33.596
5 Tottenham Hotpsur 32.018
6 Crystal Palace 29.794
7 Everton 28.711
8 Aston Villa 27.976
9 Nottingham Forest 26.360
10 Wolverhampton Wanderers 25.731
11 Brighton & Hove Albion 24.745
12 Leeds United 22.788
13 West Bromwich Albion 22.418
14 Ipswich Town 21.620
15 Southampton 21.335
16 Stoke City 20.176
17 Derby County 19.904
18 Coventry City 19.315
19 Bristol City 18.932
20 Middlesbrough 18.739
21 Norwich City 17.225
22 Bolton Wanderers 16.353
Total 26.327

And modern day attendances would increase still further if Liverpool, ManU, Spurs, QPR, Arsenal, Norwich, Man City (now monied), Wolves ... got larger grounds.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

Southampton & Eastleigh (no more a football hotbed than Brighton) conurbation has a population of 304,000. Yet they sometimes fill 32,000.

Brighton to Littlehampton 461,000, add many Brighton fans in the large towns of Hastings, Bexhill, Eastbourne, Haywards, Burgess, Horsham & Lewes.
You can see how this large catchment, that used to feed and pack the Goldstone, could under the right owner and manager could give gates of 30,000+.

Absolutely spot on. In black and white terms the 'potential' is there for us to, in the future, be bigger than a club like Southampton, a club that many on here seem to regard as some sort of Man Utd of the south due to history (and our inferiority complex).

As I've said on here before, when Cantona went to Man Utd to consider signing for them he walked out on the pitch at Old Trafford, took a look around him and agreed that it was a big enough stage for him to play on. The size of stadiums is important to players because it reflects a club's ambition and 22k is no statement of intent for any ambitious player. We have the potential, need a 25k+ stadium in the next few years to take us forward - stop talking about a half empty Amex and believe Brighton fans, believe.

 

[Samej]

No room for a 2nd tier on north or south - have you not seen pictures of the stadium?

Edit: I suppose you may have been talking about removing the roof and rebuilding but surely it would be a huge undertaking?

Could remove the community area behind the North stand and replace with seats

 

[pork pie]

Absolutely spot on. In black and white terms the 'potential' is there for us to, in the future, be bigger than a club like Southampton, a club that many on here seem to regard as some sort of Man Utd of the south due to history (and our inferiority complex).

As I've said on here before, when Cantona went to Man Utd to consider signing for them he walked out on the pitch at Old Trafford, took a look around him and agreed that it was a big enough stage for him to play on. The size of stadiums is important to players because it reflects a club's ambition and 22k is no statement of intent for any ambitious player. We have the potential, need a 25k+ stadium in the next few years to take us forward - stop talking about a half empty Amex and believe Brighton fans, believe.

And the Club have already said that when they have proof that the access and egress arrangements work, they will be looking for planning permission to take it to 30k, but that it will probably be done in two phases.