[Albion] Fab out?

[John Byrnes Mullet]

Happy with the result. But the quality of football played was poor. I guess the players trusted the process.

 

[SlickHenry]

Just because you havent warmed to the manager and his ideas have not always been obvious or worked doesnt mean you call for his head at this early stage. Also to say he’s lost the dressing room based on something you think you saw on the pitch in a brief moment is laughable. A lot of people seem to be willing him to fail or for us to lose so they can be proved right. This is probably what people are seeing on the pitch with players looking dispondent.

There has been far too much doom mongering and knee jerk emotional reactions Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions but they need to be thought through. Just because we have spent £200m doesnt equal instant success. These players are young and the fees represent their potential.

There are also not a load of managers knocking around and available to us that play the style of football that the club has set out to play with the players they have recruited. We have gone with FH as he showed huge potential, shares idea and styles of play with the board, and is part of a longer term vision. He’s going to make mistakes but we are still in the cup, tenth in the league and 6 points off the European places.

 

[trueblue]

The ‘managers we can afford’ argument is an interesting one. In the days when clubs routinely splash £15-20m on average players, I’m surprised they wouldn’t push the boat out for the boss. As we’ve seen in recent years, the right one to bring everything together can make all the difference.

 

[SlickHenry]

The ‘managers we can afford’ argument is an interesting one. In the days when clubs routinely splash £15-20m on average players, I’m surprised they wouldn’t push the boat out for the boss. As we’ve seen in recent years, the right one to bring everything together can make all the difference.

I did rephrase that slightly. Although I am pretty sure we don't want to be paying huge fees or wages for a manager. As you allude to we'd rather have more going towards players. It's more a case of not being able to attract a higher profile manager or someone at the stage of their career where they are established.

Also who are these players we should be getting to replace the average players be have splurged £15-20m on? For every Baleba and Mitoma there is the risk of a signing not working out. Using the example of Baleba, last season he wasn't fully up to speed but look at him now. Patience and perspective is required

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Have we reached the "with all due respect" stage?

I've been trying to find the video/podcast where PB mentioned it, but the best I can come up with is a recent podcast with Sky Sports "Boardroom" (how those two got a Sky Sports gig, I'll never know)



Have a listen from 12:30 to 13:10 and again from 43:45 to 44:30

I and probably others, appreciate PB's transparency - as fans we can either understand and accept the ethos/strategy of the Club or as fans we can fight against it. One of those options ends in despair and frustration and the other means we ride the ups and downs with an understanding of how it is trying to be achieved and why.

It's an interesting listen, if you can stomach the 55 mins - I suspect if would frustrate the living daylights out of you.

Here's another 3 mins of the same podcast - I think you should compare your own expectations to those of TB/PB and the Club

Boardroom podcast | Brighton's CEO Paul Barber highlights the tough journey of gaining promotion to the Premier League and the ongoing struggle to maintain that status

On The Boardroom podcast, Brightons CEO Paul Barber highlights the tough journey of gaining promotion to the Premier League and the ongoing struggle to maintain that status.

www.skysports.com

Simple question - do you think that the expectations he tells fans he has are the same as the expectations he actually has?

Or, in other words, if he has KPIs to meet, which we all do in our day jobs, do you really think he’s sharing those with us?

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Really ?

RDZ had Pedro, Verbruggen, Baleba, Igor, Ansu Fati, Dahoud, Milner , Adingra , Barco - to work with in the 23/24 season. Ansu Fati broke the bank and some of these were at RDZ request (Igor, Dahoud)
And Enciso, Estupinan, Gilmour, Buonanotte , Mitoma, Ayari, Colwill and effectively Ferguson as new players to work with in that 22/23 season (he joined in Sept).
ANd he of course did a lot with them but tough to deny that he didn't have a) incredible amount of (new) talent to work with b) a sizeable transfer chest.
Now should he have been given even more and should the Jan Transfer Window in 2024 have given him more than Barco given the injuries . But you can only buy the players that were available (eg: Dewsbury Hall /Leicester turned us down) . And we know that RDZ definitely wanted recruitment to go in a different direction. Maybe in hindsight - but its a myth that he wasn't backed. he was backed big time.

It seems that our fans pick and choose the players they think are manager signing and choose those that they think aren’t.

We either have a system where the players are picked for the manager or we don’t.

So Dahoud, Igor were either RDZ signings or they were club signings.

And similarly, the £240m of players FH has been given are either his signings or club signings.

You can’t have it both ways.

As for your point about transfer chest, you’re literally arguing about £30m compared to £240m. It’s not the same.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Still out one win against a weaken Chelsea side does not change my view he is not the right man for the job . The f***ing gloating from the super fans on here really fucks me off . It’s a forum where people are allowed to air different views we can’t all be f***ing super fans can we !!! Wankers

Of course I did but the gloating on here from the super fans mocking those that dare to have a opinion different to theirs on a forum for gods sakes that is what is wrong about NSC now

Get over yourself!!

There has been a definitive slating of the manager including personal insults, to the extent anyone not wanting him out is a ‘licker’ (christ knows how a grown adult can use this term)! Days if not weeks of it. The negativity just wears people down - so live with the gloating after a win if you’re going to dish the reverse out for days on end wanting the manager sacked.

It’s not a super fan to be patient with a manager or player or team, it isn’t a super fan just roll with results, take a bit of rough with the smooth, it’s just a fan.

 

[huzzah]

I have avoided this thread, because negativity brings me down. I have not read the previous 600 posts so my apologies if this has already been said.

I want a manager who wins cups and leagues, who is with us for decades, who is undeniable.
I want to sing we are the champions.
The joy of being in Europe was amazing and I want more.
But so does every fan (at least in their wildest fantasies).

The pre-Tony days were what I expected my football watching days to always be like, living abroad I would get to see an occasional play-off or FA-Cup game on the telly and having to rely on The Argus and NSC Lurking for any news.

The Bloom era has changed my Brighton experience. I love what has happened to our club. Slowly and steadily, with very few blips since progress is rarely linear, we are heading to a dream that if I live to 100 I may still not see, but I have hope.
I trust Uncle Tony. I trust PBOBE. They have shown us that a long horizon thinking can do.

I want FH to be the next phase. He is young (you heard it here first). He is learning. He will make mistakes along the way.
Otto Rehhagel lost 12-0 in 1978, he went on to win two Bundesliga titles, two DFB-Pokal victories, and a European Cup Winners' Cup with Werder Bremen. (ok his 12-0 loss was with Dortmund but my point is a bad loss does not prevent future greatness)
Ferguson lost 6 of his first 10 games, came 11th 3 seasons in a row and was close to being sacked before 13 Premier League titles, 5 FA Cups, and 2 Champions League trophies.

I would like to show FH at the very very least the patience we gave Potter (I recall an 11 or was it 14 match winless streak and 6 losses in a row, though I am not good at keeping bad memories around). FH's tenure has not been that bad. We did the double over united. We crashed Chelsea out of the FA cup. We "ended" Arsenals Title challenge in August. We did City and Tottenham. (I am choosing to ignore Palace and Forest and other less than stellar outcomes).

My hope is that FH's age is an advantage. He may want to stick around when other clubs come calling not fearing his chance will be gone. And then when he leads us to 10 back to back titles, he may not feel the need to go anywhere else.

Trust Tony's process!

 

[chaileyjem]

It seems that our fans pick and choose the players they think are manager signing and choose those that they think aren’t.

We either have a system where the players are picked for the manager or we don’t.

So Dahoud, Igor were either RDZ signings or they were club signings.

And similarly, the £240m of players FH has been given are either his signings or club signings.

You can’t have it both ways.

As for your point about transfer chest, you’re literally arguing about £30m compared to £240m. It’s not the same.

The role of coach in our signings is of course a debatable one and arguably why RDZ and the parted ways. But That wasn’t your original point.

It was merely - FAB H was given more and more expensive players to work with than RDZ. I just said you underplayed the scale (volume, potential, fees) of signings when RDZ was here with implication that he wasn’t backed, and if only he had been.

 

[fleet]

I will admit that I may have over reacted to the Forest defeat. Last night has made me feel much better!

 

[Bold Seagull]

I will admit that I may have over reacted to the Forest defeat. Last night has made me feel much better!

It wasn’t like a sudden transformative moment, but did signal some key takeaways I thought:
Players are together and have a spirit - reaction after a 5th min clanger proved that beyond any reasonable doubt.

While some tactical frailties still exist, the game exhibited a decent threat, solid shape, defensive organisation and game management we haven’t seen enough of.

Manager spoke well after, clearly didn’t make too big a deal after Forest, straight back into calmness, training routines and objective analysis. Definitely worked and should be commended for that.

Still much for him to prove, but that is why he was hired - to prove himself and he earned a bit of credit back last night.

Given the league position and some really positive results and performances, I’ve not been an out at any point but can understand the reservations.

 

[Zeberdi]

Get over yourself!!

There has been a definitive slating of the manager including personal insults, to the extent anyone not wanting him out is a ‘licker’ (christ knows how a grown adult can use this term)! Days if not weeks of it. The negativity just wears people down - so live with the gloating after a win if you’re going to dish the reverse out for days on end wanting the manager sacked.

It’s not a super fan to be patient with a manager or player or team, it isn’t a super fan just roll with results, take a bit of rough with the smooth, it’s just a fan.

This in spades.

We all understand the disappointment of a loss and the frustration we feel when, with the benefit of hindsight usually, the tactics were not the best used. Epithets like ‘super fan’ or ‘bedwetters’ is just that emotion spilling over but there are also genuine differences in fans’ overall level of expectations of the Club and it’s owner, I think.

After our foray into Europe and under RDZ’s smashing of the imaginary glass ceiling that we all believed in (because “weare Brighton’ and ‘teams like us’ don’t shatter ceilings), much changed. Not least expectations amongst some fans that Europe wasn’t an anomaly but the start of a season upon season of European football. Most of us realised that was unrealistic but still many hoped it wasn’t.

Our financial sustainability ethos and recruitment policy, combined with injuries in 2023/24, meant a very average run last season despite a successful group outcome in Europe. If RDZ had waited until the summer window when we were always going to rejuvenate the team, (I ardently wish he had btw) then he would have the same squad Hürzeler has now. However, that still wouldn’t have been the calibre of 2022/23 squad. That took several seasons to develop - we didn’t go out and buy World Cup winners and £100m defensive midfielders, we developed them over 3 seasons, including loans. RDZ would also have needed to build the side as FH is now doing after a big recruitment spend in the summer.

Our progress isn’t just non-linear at Brighton but the seasons are cyclical too - with the recruitment policy of buying young and selling high as part of the financial sustainability ethos we have at the Club, that is to a large extent is unavoidable. So we wax and wane over the seasons but in the past 25 years, the trajectory trend has been upwards.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

The role of coach in our signings is of course a debatable one and arguably why RDZ and the parted ways. But That wasn’t your original point.

It was merely - FAB H was given more and more expensive players to work with than RDZ. I just said you underplayed the scale (volume, potential, fees) of signings when RDZ was here with implication that he wasn’t backed, and if only he had been.

And you’ve not really put forward a compelling argument to prove me wrong.

 

[The Fits]

Is it just possible we made them look poor? Does seem whenever we win everyone says how poor the opposition were.

It’s possible yes. Defensively they are poor. Nkunku is poor. They aren’t actually very good and rely on Palmer pretty much entirely save for the odd game from Jackson.
But obviously it takes two teams to tango and I’ve not denied yesterday was a massive improvement from the previous two weeks.
But I’ve also repeatedly mentioned the importance of consistency. So let’s build on this over the next few weeks.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Just because you havent warmed to the manager and his ideas have not always been obvious or worked doesnt mean you call for his head at this early stage. Also to say he’s lost the dressing room based on something you think you saw on the pitch in a brief moment is laughable. A lot of people seem to be willing him to fail or for us to lose so they can be proved right. This is probably what people are seeing on the pitch with players looking dispondent.

There has been far too much doom mongering and knee jerk emotional reactions Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions but they need to be thought through. Just because we have spent £200m doesnt equal instant success. These players are young and the fees represent their potential.

There are also not a load of managers knocking around and available to us that play the style of football that the club has set out to play with the players they have recruited. We have gone with FH as he showed huge potential, shares idea and styles of play with the board, and is part of a longer term vision. He’s going to make mistakes but we are still in the cup, tenth in the league and 6 points off the European places.

I hate this idea that you sign a manager for his potential.

The whole concept of being a manager is that you’re past the potential stage.

If you’re not past it, as many allude to on here, then maybe you shouldn’t be a manager.

 

[Balders]

Simple question - do you think that the expectations he tells fans he has are the same as the expectations he actually has?

Or, in other words, if he has KPIs to meet, which we all do in our day jobs, do you really think he’s sharing those with us?

Why wouldn't he?

You talk about KPIs, if you listen to the full podcast, there is a part in there about the annual bonus paid to all staff (including the tea ladies!) All staff get a 20% bonus if we finish 10th or above in the EPL. If we finish 11th, they all get zero bonus.

So he's shared that and if that isn't a club wide, stated aim and strategy, I don't know what is. There is no further bonus if we reach Europe, so that's the club's expectation, which once again, is far lower than your own - that's the point!

 

[Coldeanseagull]

After my knee jerk reactions to the games since well before Christmas, I'm now on the fence....but reserve the right to change with the wind

 

[Bold Seagull]

It’s possible yes. Defensively they are poor. Nkunku is poor. They aren’t actually very good and rely on Palmer pretty much entirely save for the odd game from Jackson.
But obviously it takes two teams to tango and I’ve not denied yesterday was a massive improvement from the previous two weeks.
But I’ve also repeatedly mentioned the importance of consistency. So let’s build on this over the next few weeks.

They’re 4th.

 

[AZ Gull]

It seems that our fans pick and choose the players they think are manager signing and choose those that they think aren’t.

We either have a system where the players are picked for the manager or we don’t.

So Dahoud, Igor were either RDZ signings or they were club signings.

And similarly, the £240m of players FH has been given are either his signings or club signings.

You can’t have it both ways.

As for your point about transfer chest, you’re literally arguing about £30m compared to £240m. It’s not the same.

I think there is far more nuance to the recruitment process, in reality, than you are implying here.

Yes, Albion have a data-led recruitment process - all the reporting suggests that. But it has also been stated numerous times that the manager/head coach has the final say on the signing of a first-team player.

I don't think there is any way that the club would spend millions of pounds on a first-team player if the manager genuinely didn't want them; I also think that the club (David Weir, Barber, Bloom) would seriously take into account the wishes of the manager if they were insistent on a specific player. As an example, Ansu Fati - it is hard for me to imagine that the club would have pushed hard for that deal if we didn't have a character like De Zerbi as manager at the time. It was reported that RDZ called Fati five times, and Bloom himself stated that RDZ's influence made a big difference in that signing.

I'm sure recruitment at Albion is a very collaborative process - the manager will speak to the likes of Weir and make it known what types (or specific names) of player they feel they need in the squad. The club will assess those wishes; the manager himself will sometimes play a direct part in the recruitment process (such as with Fati, and with FH and Tzimas more recently).

I think it is entirely possible (and, indeed, probable) that if RDZ hadn't been the manager, then Fati and Dahoud would never have signed for the club. That doesn't make them "RDZ signings" in the sense that they were signed against the club's wishes, because obviously the club made the signings happen. However, if those signings don't work out (and neither of them did, really) it would certainly cause the club to review their processes.

 

[Hugo Rune]

The Hürzeler out campaign took a big hit on Friday. If you look at our pattern of results, the campaign will suffer further as we win the next two matches.

However, we’re going to get pasted by Bournemouth and Fulham afterwards. Hopefully a good cup run can keep a lid on this campaign before we beat Citeh away.