[Albion] Fab IN

[sussex_guy2k2]

Well we managed to get a point despite four players performing at Championship/League One level tonight, so clearly something was done well tactically.

Remind me, apart from Lamptey, who are our other L1 players?

 

[Anger]

I like

 

[Han Solo]

Remind me, apart from Lamptey, who are our other L1 players?

None and that includes Lamptey, but there were a couple of VERY poor performances yesterday.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

None and that includes Lamptey, but there were a couple of VERY poor performances yesterday.

As I said in my other post, I don’t like to judge performances unless I’ve seen them live.

Although if four of your players are performing at that level, surely that’s a sign of poor management?

 

[Jim in the West]

I’m sure you will agree that the contrast between these games is chalk and cheese…
Being 2-0 up with 5 minutes to go against a team that may get relegated and then drawing is very different to being 2-1 down to a Champions league team with 10 minutes to go.
i understand your thinking but these aren’t comparable games as youve recognised.
I’m not in the Fab out camp btw just to clarify. He hasn’t won me over yet though either

Added to which Villa are absolute masters at time-wasting, “game management” and every other trick Emery has brought in.

 

[Bold Seagull]

This is where I’m at. I don’t have much faith in him tactically but I’m trying to be open minded.

All of the games that are being held up as evidence that he’s progressing are either games I’ve missed (Spurs at home) or away games, of which I’ve been to zero this season. Many of our home games, which is what many fans will be judging him on, have been a complete mess, with some periods of dominance, and then him failing to adapt to a slight tweak from the opposition manager to allow us to see out games successfully or comfortably - Wolves, Ipswich, Brentford, Palace (where we was dominated tactically the whole game), Southampton. Even the wins against Utd and City felt like they were in spite of him, not because of him - Utd missed some exceptional chances to take the lead and got in their own way of the disallowed goal, and Pep decided to give up the midfield after they opened the scoring, before FH brought on our best players to turn the game around and dominate that area that City had previously been in total control of.

It just feels to me like a better manager would have us pushing for the top 4 already, with the resources he has available.

But, like yourself I imagine, I want the guy to succeed as he’s our manager, and his success is good for our club.

We don’t have top 6 resources, too many inexperienced in England plus a very young squad with a new manager to PL.

Nuno great job, but taken him last season and the summer to get them playing. Similarly with Marco at Fulham, Iraola at Bournemouth - takes time, especially when injuries really have taken their toll. Look at Wieffer, just when he appears to be clicking, we lose him.

27 pts at halfway is decent enough.

 

[Flounce]

He’s in for as long as TB wants him to be and that will be a long time unless things go very pear shaped.

I am still not convinced by him but it’s clear he has not come close to losing the dressing room as some have suggested as that was a gutsy performance for the most part. The pen was very harsh imo and sucked confidence, our goals were well worked.

Calling him a clown on the match thread was a knee jerk in the moment, and silly, but it was blindingly obvious by the end of the first half that changes needed to be made as Ayari and Enciso especially were losing the ball time and time again. The subs were made too late imo as we were getting over run, bullied and losing 50/50s from the moment the second half kicked off, no surprise we went 2-1 down and it could easily have been 3-1 before Fab pulled his finger out.

Subs gave us extra energy and a bit more steel, with a bit of luck and composure we could have won the game in the last 10 mins.

Anyway good result considering and hopefully Wieffer at least will be back for Arsenal to give us a midfield that might not get over run.

Jury out on if he is going to be good enough to continue the last few year’s improvement. A downturn in fortunes during the season is inevitable but I was encouraged by the fight the team showed in adversity. I would not discount beating Arsenal.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

We don’t have top 6 resources, too many inexperienced in England plus a very young squad with a new manager to PL.

Nuno great job, but taken him last season and the summer to get them playing. Similarly with Marco at Fulham, Iraola at Bournemouth - takes time, especially when injuries really have taken their toll. Look at Wieffer, just when he appears to be clicking, we lose him.

We keep using injuries as an excuse. We’ve been doing it for the past 3 seasons.

But I agree re giving him time. Like the person I was responding to, however, I’d like to see more from him in terms of giving us a style or a structure that I can get behind. I’m yet to see this from FH and it concerns me greatly.

Whether we have top 6 resources is up for debate, however. I know many want to go down the we spent £200m this summer as we were looking to the future route, but we still had the biggest spend in world football, and at some point expectations have to match the outlay. But this conversation has been done to death, and there’s really no right or wrong answer about which side of that coin someone wants to fall.

 

[Han Solo]

As I said in my other post, I don’t like to judge performances unless I’ve seen them live.

Although if four of your players are performing at that level, surely that’s a sign of poor management?

Well, its not a sign of good management but it also doesn't have to say much. Sometimes players have bad days or just aren't quite the right level and its not necessarily "poor management".
Tactically I think we looked ok yesterday. Individually it was very mixed.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Well, its not a sign of good management but it also doesn't have to say much. Sometimes players have bad days or just aren't quite the right level and its not necessarily "poor management".
Tactically I think we looked ok yesterday. Individually it was very mixed.

As I say, I wasn’t there so I’m not going to judge

 

[Bold Seagull]

We keep using injuries as an excuse. We’ve been doing it for the past 3 seasons.

But I agree re giving him time. Like the person I was responding to, however, I’d like to see more from him in terms of giving us a style or a structure that I can get behind. I’m yet to see this from FH and it concerns me greatly.

Whether we have top 6 resources is up for debate, however. I know many want to go down the we spent £200m this summer as we were looking to the future route, but we still had the biggest spend in world football, and at some point expectations have to match the outlay. But this conversation has been done to death, and there’s really no right or wrong answer about which side of that coin someone wants to fall.

Injuries are relevant if you’re using resources as an argument for being higher in the table, especially when half that transfer outlay have been sidelined for long periods.

It’s not like we’ve snuck into 10th with some fortunate results, without some poor player decisions (not everything is the fault of a manager) we would be challenging top 6. But that reinforces Fab is doing a decent job.

People seem to be holding this outlay like a stick, forgetting that the record spend only came from record receipts. It’s a rebuilding not just a strengthening.

 

[Zeberdi]

Fair enough to start this thread for balance - good. I've never gone 'Hurzeler out' - but I'm not going to go wildly 'Hurzeler in' either. I'm just not sure yet - hopeful, not hostile, but not completely sold either. I guess that's 'fence' then.

I don’t think anyone could go “wildly ‘Hürzeler in” (whatever that means!?) or on any manager until they’ve have shown proven results - many will be rightly circumspect given the number of young players we have and the relatively lack of experience of FH in EPL competition. This is very much one of the ‘trough’ seasons in a long term non-linear trajectory - I think this would be happening whoever we realistically could have replaced RDZ with.

Group 1 - players needing to develop much more or simply bed into the squad:

Weiffer, Gruda, Rutter, Ayari, Adingra, Enciso, O’Riley, Minteh, Ferdi, who are at fairly early stages and not at the consistent level we want them.

Group 2 - Igor, Baleba, Lamptey, Hinshelwood, Hecke, Verbruggen clearly progressing in the direction we want them to but still have room for lots of improvement.

Group 3 - Moder, Welbeck, Veltman, (arguably Mitoma ) Dunk, Milner, March (once he’s fit) who we are probably getting all we can out of them.

Group 4 - Pervis, Pedro - temporarily (hopefully) regressed but once youngsters bed in, will get back on track

That is a very young and underdeveloped squad for any manager to work with. Add to that key players, Ferguson, Hinshelwood, March, Welbeck having season impacting injuries/condition issues.

I had hoped Hürzeler would have us winning more matches than this but I think a lot has to do with the where the squad itself is at. I had more hope frankly in our summer signings but seeing some of the quality we do have at times and the very slim margins between winning and drawing games, the way we face up to big clubs, I am not too panicky and prepared to see a sacrificial season where we finish around mid-table if it means the players above in Groups 1 and 2 especially come good by the end of the season with some at a level that starts us much stronger next season.

 

[GT49er]

I don’t think anyone could go “wildly ‘Hürzeler in” (whatever that means!?) or on any manager until they’ve have shown proven results - many will be rightly circumspect given the number of young players we have and the relatively lack of experience of FH in EPL competition. This is very much one of the ‘trough’ seasons in a long term non-linear trajectory - I think this would be happening whoever we realistically could have replaced RDZ with.

Group 1 - players needing to develop much more or simply bed into the squad:

Weiffer, Gruda, Rutter, Ayari, Adingra, Enciso, O’Riley, Minteh, Ferdi, who are at fairly early stages and not at the consistent level we want them.

Group 2 - Igor, Baleba, Lamptey, Hinshelwood, Hecke, Verbruggen clearly progressing in the direction we want them to but still have room for lots of improvement.

Group 3 - Moder, Welbeck, Veltman, (arguably Mitoma ) Dunk, Milner, March (once he’s fit) who we are probably getting all we can out of them.

Group 4 - Pervis, Pedro - temporarily (hopefully) regressed but once youngsters bed in, will get back on track

That is a very young and underdeveloped squad for any manager to work with. Add to that key players, Ferguson, Hinshelwood, March, Welbeck having season impacting injuries/condition issues.

I had hoped Hürzeler would have us winning more matches than this but I think a lot has to do with the where the squad itself is at. I had more hope frankly in our summer signings but seeing some of the quality we do have at times and the very slim margins between winning and drawing games, the way we face up to big clubs, I am not too panicky and prepared to see a sacrificial season where we finish around mid-table if it means the players above in Groups 1 and 2 especially come good by the end of the season with some at a level that starts us much stronger next season.

"I'm not going to go wildly 'Hurzeler in' either" is a perfectly straightforward statement, to anyone for whom English is their first language anyway. "Whatever that means"? - WTF!
Last person I remember saying that was Prince Charles, and he was also making himself look a prat.

 

[Zeberdi]

"I'm not going to go wildly 'Hurzeler in' either" is a perfectly straightforward statement, to anyone for whom English is their first language anyway. "Whatever that means"? - WTF!
Last person I remember saying that was Prince Charles, and he was also making himself look a prat.

Um, I was agreeing with you! You already said you weren’t ‘wildly in’ and I was saying me too ‘whatever that meant’ for me. It wasn’t a dig or criticism - You seem to be taking my posts the wrong way again.

 

[The Sock of Poskett]

I'm very encouraged by what I've seen so far this season - ANY manager coming to the Premier League for the first time needs a season to get used to it, to work out the best way to use the squad, and to start delivering results. Amorim and Postacoglou aren't finding it easy, are they?
We had a flyer of a start, where we were clinical in front of goal and had the rub of the green a bit at times.
Now we're in a period where we're not being clinical, one or two decisions aren't going our way, and invariably with a young squad we're seeing inconsistency, resulting in frustration over games where we might have ended up with more points.
In terms of style and tactical shape, I think Fab's been hampered by rarely having the same matchday squad to work with - injuries have deprived us for a period of so many key players and recent signings that it's been impossible to get a settled team.
So 10th at this stage, and within touching distance of European spots, is absolutely fine by me.
As we get more players back, younger players start to mature and one or two older heads play their part, there'll be plenty of excitement to come in the second half of the season.
We are still more than capable of a 4th-7th finish.

I'll finish with one thought: given the dribblers and quick feet we have in the squad - Mitoma, Pedro, Georginio, Enciso, Gruda etc - isn't it odd we haven't had one penalty yet this season?

 

[trueblue]

I'll finish with one thought: given the dribblers and quick feet we have in the squad - Mitoma, Pedro, Georginio, Enciso, Gruda etc - isn't it odd we haven't had one penalty yet this season?

I don't think it's that odd. We do all of our dribbling outside of the box and most of our shooting.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Right, here goes…

Dear Mr Barber
Regarding our manager. Please would you explain what you’re going to do about this evening’s result. I’ve been a fan for over 100 years, have bought lottery tickets and the occasional bovril, got soaked at Withdean, ……

Hmmm.....the letter I was expecting was:

Dear Mr Barber,

Ever since I started watching Brighton we should of finished higher in the Premiership.
We should be beating teams like Leicester and Villa.
We didn't get Europe this season and it's not good enough.
We need to win somethink, and it isn't going to happen with Hurtzeler.
Time to Get Rid.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

He’s currently being dealt a shit hand with the injuries. At various times Veltman, Dunk, Pervis, Weiffer, Hinshelwood, Kadioglu, Welbeck, Ferguson, Webster, Milner, O’riley, Pedro, March, Gruda and probably others have all been out injured. He’s barely been able to field a full strength team.

Constantly having players out, being forced to change formations & tactics, meaning no consistency. That makes things so much harder as a manager.

Indeed.

And yet we see repeated posts on here about one or other of our players, who have been benched for a game, being dismissed ('loan or sell?'), alongside a weird obsession to reduce the first team squad to around 15 players, with a first eleven that is picked week in week out, like the Revie Leeds side between 1967 and 1974.

It is f***ing 2025 tomorrow for f*** sake.
Football has changed.
We are trying to establish ourselves as a top ten side, with our eyes on even higher.
We are not trying to rise up from division 4 against tubby alcoholics and cloggers.
In mud.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Except early days don’t really exist in PL football. If he’s good he’ll go elsewhere. If he’s bad he’ll be told to go elsewhere. I’d rather he’s the former so we can at least enjoy winning a few games before the inevitable call from The Bridge.

Sure, you’ll win nothing with kids either…..

I would argue they do exist but it depends on the team. We are a mid-table outfit that aspires to improve, so the margin for error/time is a lot greater IMO.

It’s not as though we’re in the bottom 6 at the moment.

 

[timbha]

Hmmm.....the letter I was expecting was:

Dear Mr Barber,

Ever since I started watching Brighton we should of finished higher in the Premiership.
We should be beating teams like Leicester and Villa.
We didn't get Europe this season and it's not good enough.
We need to win somethink, and it isn't going to happen with Hurtzeler.
Time to Get Rid.

I’ve just got to page 7 of his reply