[Football] FA Cup semi finals

[trueblue]

But when a goal is allowed that is clearly offside but another that is clearly offside plus a tiny bit then we will have the same issue.

You will - but you wouldn't get goals ruled out for such ridiculously slim margins as we did yesterday. The attacker would definitely have been gaining an advantage even if there was a dispute over the last inch or two. If people still want to argue about that, let them. It doesn't really matter - we just need an interpretation of offside that reflects the original intention.

 

[A1X]

Interesting angle to the offside goal

Wow I’m definitely going to believe some mobile phone footage which doesn’t show what’s needed over the HD TV cameras

 

[um bongo molongo]

So how far offside does someone need to be before they should be flagged offside? At some point there will be a point under your definition where they change from being okay to goal hanging. What is it?

My solution: Lino gives the decision as they did before VAR. VAR checks it using the video replay and the naked eye - no lines. If the decision is clearly and obviously wrong to the naked eye they overturn it, otherwise the on field decision stands. No lines and false accuracy.

 

[GloryDays]

You said 'If you know football you know it’s offside during the build up'. I wondered how you reached that conclusion. One that you could only reach if you were bang in line.

As for 'adding horizontal lines' to consider how far apart the players are.... not seen anybody mention horizontal lines. They would just add vertical lines calibrated to the pitch, exactly as they do now but with a tolerance level built in.

Oh, I see. I just knew. Or I was utterly convinced I knew. Which turned out to be proved right.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I kind of like cricket's answer to this conundrum - how much of a cricket ball needs to be shown to be hitting the stumps that the technology can reliably overturn the on-field decision.

What we have lost with VAR that other sports have retained is the sanctity of the on-field official's decision.

The question isn't 'how far does someone need to be?', the question should be how accurate is the system we're using and how should that be used to correct an on-field decision.

Cricket umpires have statistically improved their decision making with technology.

It's worth bearing in mind that the degree of uncertainty in the Hawkeye system used to predict LBW decisions is significantly less than the margin used for umpires call.
That is to say, while the threshold to overturn a decision is half a ball width, the actual uncertainty is only a few mm.

But when a goal is allowed that is clearly offside but another that is clearly offside plus a tiny bit then we will have the same issue.

The umpire’s call in cricket is getting moaned at more by the players. It is ridiculous when a ball clipping the stumps can be out while one hitting the stumps hard can be not out.

One big “umpire’s call” decision goes to a big club and we are back here.

I think that perception that it's being moaned at more by players is probably influenced by Stokes mentioning it in the last series. It crops up now and again, but the amount of moaning is much less than there would be if people were being given out LBW on the basis of a ball that's shown to be just shaving the stumps (the equivalent of yesterday's decision).

I gather they're not including a sensible margin of error when they're going to semi-automatic offsides next season, and also aren't going to bother including a sensor in the ball to accurately determine the time the ball's kicked, so none of this is going to be satisfactorily resolved.

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

If he's offside he's offside

Depends when the VAR stop the video. One frame back and he is probably onside.

Do they freeze the frame at point of contact with the ball or when it leaves the foot of the player passing the ball. Unless they are recording at 900fps, there will be too much error to call these close decisions.

 

[Flounce]

Ah I see everyone’s still furious about a correct decision then?

As long as the “correct” decisions often don’t go against the top clubs when they score, fury will continue

 

[dazzer6666]

Aside from the offside controversy, I would hope we’re having a look at Sheaf from Coventry. Looked a very composed ball-winner in midfield.

Tony’s algo looks at everyone

 

[dazzer6666]

This old debate again. Don't understand the arguments at all. If you wanted VAR, here it is. It has correctly identified that the player was offside. Just because we all wanted the Coventry goal to stand doesn't change the FACT that it was marginally offside.

Correct within the confines of how VAR is currently applied………it’s not 100% certain that he was offside due to the limitations expressed multiple times about point of impact/ball leaving his foot etc.

 

[BN41Albion]

View attachment 181046

You can clearly see there that the United player's arm is out infront of the front of his boot. Its too marginal either way but an even bigger kick in the teeth that it's more than likely not even offside

 

[BN41Albion]

This old debate again. Don't understand the arguments at all. If you wanted VAR, here it is. It has correctly identified that the player was offside. Just because we all wanted the Coventry goal to stand doesn't change the FACT that it was marginally offside.

No-one wanted var ffs. Not in this form. Look at the imagine on this thread. Its likely not even offside considering the line is drawn from the United player's foot and his arm is infront of his foot.

I really cannot believe any football fan is arguing for the use of VAR by now.

 

[Arthritic Toe]

No-one wanted var ffs. Not in this form. Look at the imagine on this thread. Its likely not even offside considering the line is drawn from the United player's foot and his arm is infront of his foot.

I really cannot believe any football fan is arguing for the use of VAR by now.

There was a huge clamouring for VAR by TV pundits, 'wronged' managers, 'wronged' fans - none of whom actually thought it through. So we've got what 'we' asked for. Hope everyone's happy.

 

[Bodian]

You can clearly see there that the United player's arm is out infront of the front of his boot. Its too marginal either way but an even bigger kick in the teeth that it's more than likely not even offside

Arms don't count.

 

[BN41Albion]

There was a huge clamouring for VAR by TV pundits, 'wronged' managers, 'wronged' fans - none of whom actually thought it through. So we've got what 'we' asked for. Hope everyone's happy.

Why are you being such an arse about this? I'm really struggling to understand the point you're trying to make and why you're being so righteous?

 

[BN41Albion]

Arms don't count.

View attachment 181061

Oh, well I stand corrected on that point

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

There was a huge clamouring for VAR by TV pundits, 'wronged' managers, 'wronged' fans - none of whom actually thought it through. So we've got what 'we' asked for. Hope everyone's happy.

Yeh, you're talking bollocks mate. Only a small percentage of match going fans ever wanted this

 

[A1X]

There was a huge clamouring for VAR by TV pundits, 'wronged' managers, 'wronged' fans - none of whom actually thought it through. So we've got what 'we' asked for. Hope everyone's happy.

It strikes me that you’re arguing that fans who didn’t get the result they wanted were wrong because you didn’t get the result you wanted. Which is an interesting viewpoint.

 

[Nigella's Cream Pie]

Yeah, there will always be 1 mm offside outcomes, don't have a problem with that and dont think there should be any discretion applied, just where the binary line is drawn.

You cannot be offside by less than a few inches, the thickness of the lines drawn - if they overlap, it's onside

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Yeh, you're talking bollocks mate. Only a small percentage of match going fans ever wanted this

No they didn't, polls at the time showed the majority wanted VAR in place

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Depends when the VAR stop the video. One frame back and he is probably onside.

Do they freeze the frame at point of contact with the ball or when it leaves the foot of the player passing the ball. Unless they are recording at 900fps, there will be too much error to call these close decisions.

I concur.

But the question was around if he was offside.

I'm in the bin it camp