[Other Sport] F1 nonsense

[Simster]

Consider this scenario:

RB Leipzig are playing Red Bull Salzburg in the penultimate round of the Europa League group stages in late November. It's all square at half time, and as things stand Leipzig need a point to qualify. However, Salzburg look like they will need a miracle because Celtic are hammering group whipping boys Rosenborg, which means that Salzburg need 3 points here and another 3 at Celtic to pip the unwashed to 2nd.

Red Bull orders Leipzig to concede 3 goals in the second half and to take all their strikers off. Handily, they now just need to beat Rosenborg at home to qualify and now Salzburg have a chance themselves. A good job well done.

That sounds a bit shit doesn't it? You might even say dishonest and cheating? But apparently that sort of conduct is all perfectly ok in Formula One and exactly why it will always be even less of a sport than Darts or Snooker to me - and why Lewis Hamilton or any other driver should never be anywhere near SPOTY when the time comes.

It is nothing but fast traffic. It isn't even competitive. Why would anyone pay huge sums to watch this organised charade?

 

[Stat Brother]

You know you're in the shite when you've been out-ethiced (is a word) by UEFA.
As that can't happen in football, because both Red Bull sides are allowed in the same competition.

 

[Klaas]

It is nothing but fast traffic.

I did a

 

[beorhthelm]

its not really fair on the drivers, however there is an element of teamwork. a closer football analogy would be manager's orders for who takes a penalty, not throwing the game.

 

[Mackenzie]

Motorised advertising.

 

[Da Man Clay]

It’s not quite the same as that though, is it?

More akin to two players on the same team chasing the golden boot and forcing one striker to set up the other when faced with an open goal. The team still win. Just one striker is a bit pissed off.

 

[dejavuatbtn]

The only positive out of this was Lewis Hamilton being humble for the first time in his life.

 

[Simster]

its not really fair on the drivers, however there is an element of teamwork. a closer football analogy would be manager's orders for who takes a penalty, not throwing the game.

It’s not quite the same as that though, is it?

More akin to two players on the same team chasing the golden boot and forcing one striker to set up the other when faced with an open goal. The team still win. Just one striker is a bit pissed off.

I take these points and understand why it's done, but just because my analogy doesn't quite work, doesn't detract from these two points I make:

1) they crown the world champion as the one with the most points. Hamilton didn't earn his points today, so that seems flawed to me. Corrupt, in fact.

2) 150,000 or so will pay a fortune to watch a RACE, but then team orders ruin the spectacle. Are the crowd given refunds or are they expected to pay £100 a ticket to watch Mercedes decide who is going to win? i.e £100 to watch very fast traffic.

 

[Stat Brother]

F1 has always loved a team/tyre/points farce and yet people still watch.

Perhaps it should be more realistic and have them race round Valley Gardens

 

[Medwayseagull]

The powers that be could stop it by introducing a significant points deduction penalty. They seem to have penalties for all other sorts of misdemeanours.

 

[*Gullsworth*]

Simples let each team have only one car and one driver.

 

[Stat Brother]

Cycling had a better one

The all conquering Mapei team (no prizes for guessing why they were all conquering) had 3 riders heading towards the finish.

The team owner, sat at home, called the team at the event and picked the finishing order of his 3 riders.
They then proceeded to get into line for the finish.


Happy days!!!

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

You know you're in the shite when you've been out-ethiced (is a word) by UEFA.
As that can't happen in football, because both Red Bull sides are allowed in the same competition.

At the risk of being wooshed you have seen Celtics group for the Europa League?

 

[Iggle Piggle]

In fairness to Mercedes they normally let their drivers race so much so that Rosberg won the Championship much to Hamiltons disdain. They have also let Bottas and Lewis race earlier in the season. The issue yesterday was

1. It was blatant and therefore takes the piss out of the fans and isn't sport in its normal sense.
2. Hamilton hadn't outraced Bottas to earn the points albeit he was about the only person who put a move on anyone during the race when he overtook vettel.

I do enjoy F1 but that was the 3rd race on the spin I've fallen asleep. The other big problem it has is that the top 3 teams are effectively a lap a race quicker than the rest. Only 6 cars can win a race and 2 of them are number 2 drivers. Perhaps it will liven up when Leclerc goes to Ferrari.

 

[Tooting Gull]

What do you mean, EVEN less of a sport than snooker...no quarter given or taken in Selby's epic 10-9 final win against Higgins on the same day!

But back to the point - it's a total farce. Even if you accept the very dubious argument that F1 is to a small extent a team sport, the fact is that there is an individual race to be drivers' champion and that is the main reason people watch, and they also bet on it. You can't bet on sport that isn't fair and seen to be fair, that is why the likes of tennis, snooker, horse racing and all others are starting to invest so heavily in their Integrity units. Hamilton was uncomfortable with it, and usually he is as shameless as they come. If this had happened in another sport, there's a good chance the team and drivers involved would get banned and yet in F1 it is tolerated.

 

[drew]

It’s not quite the same as that though, is it?

More akin to two players on the same team chasing the golden boot and forcing one striker to set up the other when faced with an open goal. The team still win. Just one striker is a bit pissed off.

More akin to two players in different teams chasing the golden boot. One team wins a penalty and their normal penalty take hands the ball to the player chasing the golden boot.

Team orders are nothing new.

 

[drew]

What do you mean, EVEN less of a sport than snooker...no quarter given or taken in Selby's epic 10-9 final win against Higgins on the same day!

But back to the point - it's a total farce. Even if you accept the very dubious argument that F1 is to a small extent a team sport, the fact is that there is an individual race to be drivers' champion and that is the main reason people watch, and they also bet on it. You can't bet on sport that isn't fair and seen to be fair, that is why the likes of tennis, snooker, horse racing and all others are starting to invest so heavily in their Integrity units. Hamilton was uncomfortable with it, and usually he is as shameless as they come. If this had happened in another sport, there's a good chance the team and drivers involved would get banned and yet in F1 it is tolerated.

Who'd be stupid enough to bet on Bottas knowing that if Hamilton were second he would be allowed to pass.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Consider this scenario:

RB Leipzig are playing Red Bull Salzburg in the penultimate round of the Europa League group stages in late November. It's all square at half time, and as things stand Leipzig need a point to qualify. However, Salzburg look like they will need a miracle because Celtic are hammering group whipping boys Rosenborg, which means that Salzburg need 3 points here and another 3 at Celtic to pip the unwashed to 2nd.

Red Bull orders Leipzig to concede 3 goals in the second half and to take all their strikers off. Handily, they now just need to beat Rosenborg at home to qualify and now Salzburg have a chance themselves. A good job well done.

That sounds a bit shit doesn't it? You might even say dishonest and cheating? But apparently that sort of conduct is all perfectly ok in Formula One and exactly why it will always be even less of a sport than Darts or Snooker to me - and why Lewis Hamilton or any other driver should never be anywhere near SPOTY when the time comes.

It is nothing but fast traffic. It isn't even competitive. Why would anyone pay huge sums to watch this organised charade?

As others have pointed out, this is an absolute SHAMBLES of an analogy!

They race for the SAME team. There is no cheating here at all. Its an ethical question, for sure (and you'd be fuming if you'd placed a stupid bet on Bottas to win the race), but there's nothing wrong with their entirely understandable call.

The place where F1 strays into RB Leipzig / Salzburg territory, and where you actually COULD get real conflicts, is where there are two supposedly separate teams, under one umbrella - eg Red Bull and Toro Rosso. If a TR driver were to let a RB driver by, then hold up his direct rivals, that would be far more contentious.

(You're right of course that it is a very dull sport - obviously)

 

[Hillian1]

It’s not quite the same as that though, is it?

More akin to two players on the same team chasing the golden boot and forcing one striker to set up the other when faced with an open goal. The team still win. Just one striker is a bit pissed off.

This is exactly the scenario.

If Red Bull Racing had ordered their sister team Torro Rosso to pull over then that would be a far more accurate depection of what happened.

Although I do think it's a bit shit that Bottas didn't get the race win he fully deserved.

 

[GT49er]

What's the problem? Formula 1 (and motor racing generally) has always been like this. Beneficial for the team to have the World Champion in their team. Before the war, and even up into the 40s and earlyn50s, I believe, the no.1 driver would take over the number 2 driver's car id his crashed or conked out - and he could still win the race as the placings were based on the order of finishing of the drivers, not the cars.
This certainly happened several times to Stirling Moss at Mercedes Benz, when he was no. 2 to Juan Fangio.

It's still boring these days, though.