[Other Sport] F1 2024

[Worried Man Blues]

If Max goes to Merc. who could beat him in the Red Bull? Sainz?

 

[indy3050]

Rumours abound that Helmut Marko may leave Red Bull to make way for Max to leave.

Apparently he has an exit clause in his contract giving him the ability to leave it Marko leaves.

Rumours are mainly that Marko could retire with Newey and Max moving away from Red Bull.

So what EXACTLY is going on at Red Bull? They’ve just had the most successful season ever in the sport yet they seem to be in absolute chaos? This can’t all be about Horner sending some smutty texts can it?

 

[Audax]

So what EXACTLY is going on at Red Bull? They’ve just had the most successful season ever in the sport yet they seem to be in absolute chaos? This can’t all be about Horner sending some smutty texts can it?

If you *really* want to know, it's a long story... What appears to be happening right now is a post Dietrich Mateschitz power struggle for control of the Formula 1 team, operations, and related companies (such as Red Bull Power Trains).

I posted last week a link to a report that Horner had apparently tried to purchase the team, without the knowledge of the Austrian parent company. Since then a little more detail (validity of which is not confirmed, but it makes sense and ties in with other rumours) has emerged on this. While D Mateschitz was alive, his deal with the Thai family that invented Red Bull was that he would have full control of the Austrian arm of the business, while the Thai's would concentrate on the Asian side. However, the Thai's still owned 51% of Red Bull Austria.

When DM passed away, his 49% share passed to his son, Mark. But the deal granting RB Austria full independence also expired, so the Thai's technically now have the controlling stake. The story that's starting to emerge is that, allegedly, the Thai side of the business wants to separate the Red Bull Formula 1 (and other related) company from Red Bull Austria, and as part of that they have been intending for Horner (with backing from UK investors) to buy into the new independent F1 operations. Red Bull Austria would, in the process, lose any direct control over the F1 team and have far less influence in the new company.

This is, apparently, the key element of a massive internal power struggle. There's other pieces to the puzzle as well, but it's thought that Horner is being deliberately targeted as part of an effort to prevent the plan to separate out the F1 operations

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

If you *really* want to know, it's a long story... What appears to be happening right now is a post Dietrich Mateschitz power struggle for control of the Formula 1 team, operations, and related companies (such as Red Bull Power Trains).

I posted last week a link to a report that Horner had apparently tried to purchase the team, without the knowledge of the Austrian parent company. Since then a little more detail (validity of which is not confirmed, but it makes sense and ties in with other rumours) has emerged on this. While D Mateschitz was alive, his deal with the Thai family that invented Red Bull was that he would have full control of the Austrian arm of the business, while the Thai's would concentrate on the Asian side. However, the Thai's still owned 51% of Red Bull Austria.

When DM passed away, his 49% share passed to his son, Mark. But the deal granting RB Austria full independence also expired, so the Thai's technically now have the controlling stake. The story that's starting to emerge is that, allegedly, the Thai side of the business wants to separate the Red Bull Formula 1 (and other related) company from Red Bull Austria, and as part of that they have been intending for Horner (with backing from UK investors) to buy into the new independent F1 operations. Red Bull Austria would, in the process, lose any direct control over the F1 team and have far less influence in the new company.

This is, apparently, the key element of a massive internal power struggle. There's other pieces to the puzzle as well, but it's thought that Horner is being deliberately targeted as part of an effort to prevent the plan to separate out the F1 operations

Excellent info Audax.

So are we looking at losing one of Horner or Marko form the paddock?

Or is there some way that we could lose them both. That would be ideal as I think they're both incredibly arrogant, classless bell ends.

 

[Audax]

Excellent info Audax.

So are we looking at losing one of Horner or Marko form the paddock?

Or is there some way that we could lose them both. That would be ideal as I think they're both incredibly arrogant, classless bell ends.

Rumours abound that Marko may choose to retire soon. Possibly as part of a plot to give Verstappen what he needs to leave RBR early (his contract apparently has a clause that stipulates if Marko leaves, he can leave as well).

For now, it appears that Horner still has the full backing of the Thai owners. As long as he has that, he'll stay.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

Horner turning up at his 50th wearing a blue crushed velvet double-breasted suit jacket tells you everything you need to know.

 

[Cordwainer]

Many traits of CH that makes him, for me, incredibly unlikable. One of the ones that makes me laugh though is the very strange ‘English person talking to a foreigner’ accent he uses when speaking to anyone non English! Compare him to some of the other team principals who are multi lingual. He certainly puts the great western front into countryside.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Rumours abound that Marko may choose to retire soon. Possibly as part of a plot to give Verstappen what he needs to leave RBR early (his contract apparently has a clause that stipulates if Marko leaves, he can leave as well).

For now, it appears that Horner still has the full backing of the Thai owners. As long as he has that, he'll stay.

Why does Max want out? The team is built around him, he's a winning machine if he stays.

 

[MTSeagulls]

Horner turning up at his 50th wearing a blue crushed velvet double-breasted suit jacket tells you everything you need to know.

Too jazzy?

 

[chickens]

Horner turning up at his 50th wearing a blue crushed velvet double-breasted suit jacket tells you everything you need to know.

I think we can just refer to him as Horny from this point forward.

 

[Audax]

Why does Max want out? The team is built around him, he's a winning machine if he stays.

2026 is a major unknown. Red Bull currently using Honda engines rebadged as RBPT engine, as part of the agreement they made with Honda when they initially decided to exit F1. Aston Martin will get the new versions of those Honda engines in 2026 under the new rules.

Red Bull, from 2026, will be running their own in-house designed and built engines. Those engines could be good enough to keep Red Bull out front, or they could be facing another Renault-style situation where lack of power and lack of reliability sees them gobbled up by the competition.

The rumours (must stress that - dodgy rumours at best currently) are suggesting he's seen some data that suggests RBPT might be behind on development. And then there's Hamilton's surprise move to Ferrari, which opens up a seat at Mercedes that would need to be claimed ASAP.

Also ... if Horner does go that could trigger a bit of a meltdown at RBR. It's plausible that Horner going sets off a chain reaction that triggers Newey into deciding it's time to retire, etc. Red Bull will still be very good seat to have for 2025 (very little, if any, rules changes and new cars for 2026 will mean the 2024 cars will mostly carry over, so a strong 2024 car = a strong 2025 car), but for 2026 it could be a very different picture.

 

[banjo]

I think we can just refer to him as Horny from this point forward.

Or creepy Christian

 

[Flounce]

2026 is a major unknown. Red Bull currently using Honda engines rebadged as RBPT engine, as part of the agreement they made with Honda when they initially decided to exit F1. Aston Martin will get the new versions of those Honda engines in 2026 under the new rules.

Red Bull, from 2026, will be running their own in-house designed and built engines. Those engines could be good enough to keep Red Bull out front, or they could be facing another Renault-style situation where lack of power and lack of reliability sees them gobbled up by the competition.

The rumours (must stress that - dodgy rumours at best currently) are suggesting he's seen some data that suggests RBPT might be behind on development. And then there's Hamilton's surprise move to Ferrari, which opens up a seat at Mercedes that would need to be claimed ASAP.

Also ... if Horner does go that could trigger a bit of a meltdown at RBR. It's plausible that Horner going sets off a chain reaction that triggers Newey into deciding it's time to retire, etc. Red Bull will still be very good seat to have for 2025 (very little, if any, rules changes and new cars for 2026 will mean the 2024 cars will mostly carry over, so a strong 2024 car = a strong 2025 car), but for 2026 it could be a very different picture.

I suggest Newey retiring or going somewhere else will be a massive problem for Red Bull too?

 

[indy3050]

If you *really* want to know, it's a long story... What appears to be happening right now is a post Dietrich Mateschitz power struggle for control of the Formula 1 team, operations, and related companies (such as Red Bull Power Trains).

I posted last week a link to a report that Horner had apparently tried to purchase the team, without the knowledge of the Austrian parent company. Since then a little more detail (validity of which is not confirmed, but it makes sense and ties in with other rumours) has emerged on this. While D Mateschitz was alive, his deal with the Thai family that invented Red Bull was that he would have full control of the Austrian arm of the business, while the Thai's would concentrate on the Asian side. However, the Thai's still owned 51% of Red Bull Austria.

When DM passed away, his 49% share passed to his son, Mark. But the deal granting RB Austria full independence also expired, so the Thai's technically now have the controlling stake. The story that's starting to emerge is that, allegedly, the Thai side of the business wants to separate the Red Bull Formula 1 (and other related) company from Red Bull Austria, and as part of that they have been intending for Horner (with backing from UK investors) to buy into the new independent F1 operations. Red Bull Austria would, in the process, lose any direct control over the F1 team and have far less influence in the new company.

This is, apparently, the key element of a massive internal power struggle. There's other pieces to the puzzle as well, but it's thought that Horner is being deliberately targeted as part of an effort to prevent the plan to separate out the F1 operations

Amazing stuff and thank you very much for explaining it to me so well

 

[indy3050]

A little snippet I just read on tomorrows papers from Max

‘My dad is no liar’

TBC

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

A little snippet I just read on tomorrows papers from Max

‘My dad is no liar’

TBC

Not only is he not a serial wife/girlfriend beater, nor an abuser of Max as a young man, nor someone who assaulted his own father, he’s also not a liar, who knew? Jos Verstappen walks on water.

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

Has Horner "done a Putin"?

Red Bull suspend woman who accused Christian Horner of inappropriate behaviour​

 

[JJ McClure]

Person in position of power keeps job whilst lowly worker is fired? I'm totally shocked.

 

[Audax]

Has Horner "done a Putin"?

Red Bull suspend woman who accused Christian Horner of inappropriate behaviour​

The BBC report is (I suspect deliberately, while they try to verify) short on detail. Other reports (such as in the Guardian) specifically mention that the woman has been suspended as a direct result of the inquiry into the grievance raised.

Christian Horner accuses F1 chiefs and media of exploiting Red Bull furore

The Red Bull team principal believes others in the sport are taking advantage of the scandal engulfing his team

www.theguardian.com

There's multiple possible scenarios. The most obvious ones that spring to mind immediately:

1. That she's indicated she intends to take legal action, in which case the suspension is to be expected and wouldn't indicate anything significant.

2. That the inquiry unearthed evidence we're not aware of that suggests the grievance raised was/is dishonest in some manner.

3. That they've got evidence she is the source of the leak and the leak breaches some form of contractual obligation.

4. That Red Bull / Horner are stupid enough to retaliate.

But it's all pure speculation at this point. We simply don't have any transparency on what's going on.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

The BBC report is (I suspect deliberately, while they try to verify) short on detail. Other reports (such as in the Guardian) specifically mention that the woman has been suspended as a direct result of the inquiry into the grievance raised.

Christian Horner accuses F1 chiefs and media of exploiting Red Bull furore

The Red Bull team principal believes others in the sport are taking advantage of the scandal engulfing his team

www.theguardian.com

There's multiple possible scenarios. The most obvious ones that spring to mind immediately:

1. That she's indicated she intends to take legal action, in which case the suspension is to be expected and wouldn't indicate anything significant.

2. That the inquiry unearthed evidence we're not aware of that suggests the grievance raised was/is dishonest in some manner.

3. That they've got evidence she is the source of the leak and the leak breaches some form of contractual obligation.

4. That Red Bull / Horner are stupid enough to retaliate.

But it's all pure speculation at this point. We simply don't have any transparency on what's going on.

Whatever, it's dreadful PR.

What a cock up