[Misc] F1 2021

[Weststander]

I watched a recording last night of the Brazilian GP (fast forwarding the less interesting bits).

Loved Hamilton's destruction of MV's Red Bull on the successful pass, the huge roars throughout from the LH-biased crowd and the national anthem ceremony.

Genuinely a goosebumps patriotic moment, so proud of Lewis, you've got to absorb all this in real-time as we may never see his like again.

The São Paulo crowd's adoration for Lewis is incredible, pure respect.

 

[Audax]

It was a discussion about risk and position of the title race, not a comparison of the relative merits of the moves or corners. Hamilton couldn't afford a DNF in Brazil or his title chances were over, so regardless of whatever else, he was going to do everything in his skillset and ability to avoid a collision whether he needed to or not, he knew he had to get a move done clean as a whistle.

At Silverstone, Max left enough room for a car inside of him, but not enough room for Hamilton who sent a hail mary up the inside - because his title position demanded he had to win that race. What I am saying or asking is whether at 32 pts ahead, did Max do everything in his skillset and ability to avoid Hamilton regardless of racing lines, who had the corner etc. He had a decision to make, yield and get bullied into letting Hamilton through, or contest the move retaining a fair line. I'm not saying he was wrong to contest it in the context of the Grand Prix, a win was at stake, but in the context of the title race as a whole, absolutely.

Fair argument. I'd still side with Verstappen's approach at Silverstone being right at the time. Benefit of hindsight and all that, the extra 18 (maybe 32?) points he'd have over Hamilton at this point would have the title pretty much sown up for him, but at the time and in that race ... I think it was reasonable for him to assume that Hamilton wouldn't miss the apex by so much. It was, in theory, a low-risk move based on how often the outside line works around that corner. Not least because as a driver you know that the driver on the inside knows the potential consequences of tipping the outside driver into a spin through there. Keep in mind that Hamilton himself got lucky that a red flag was thrown - he also had probable terminal damage on his car that was repairable during the break. (Now perhaps there is a rule that could be changed?)

 

[Deleted member 2719]

If Lewis wins in Saudi Arabia and Max is second it may well leave Max a point of two ahead going into the final race. If that happens I doubt Max will let Lewis make it past the first corner.

It could happen, what if Hamilton is leading in the championship? He too could take Max out in the last race.

Both of them will want to win this title at all costs and expect some cheating from teams and drivers to do it.

 

[Icy Gull]

It could happen, what if Hamilton is leading in the championship? He too could take Max out in the last race.

Both of them will want to win this title at all costs and expect some cheating from teams and drivers to do it.

Willing to have a wager that if Hamilton is leading the Championship that he will absolutely not attempt to shunt Max off? I’m willing to bet if Max is leading he will try and force Hamilton off if there is any danger of him passing him if Max is leading the Championship

£50 to the Robert Eaton Memorial fund?

Basically I am saying Lewis won’t cheat but Max will if either situation arises

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Willing to have a wager that if Hamilton is leading the Championship that he will absolutely not attempt to shunt Max off? I’m willing to bet if Max is leading he will try and force Hamilton off if there is any danger of him passing him if Max is leading.

£50 to the Robert Eaton Memorial fund?

Basically I am saying Lewis won’t cheat but Max will if either situation arises

I am not a betting man.

We will have to wait to see.

Not sure whether you remember the Prost/Senna battle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBForKcFWoA

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

Racers all know: to finish first, first you have to finish.

What I would love to see is a scenario in the final race where LH is a point or 2 ahead of Max so Max knows he MUST finish in front of Lewis.
He can't risk contact as that risks putting him out the race and the title hope has gone.
He will have to yield [can't risk contact] should the situation arise, but I don't yet think he has learnt this element to his racing.

 

[Icy Gull]

I am not a betting man.

We will have to wait to see.

Not sure whether you remember the Prost/Senna battle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBForKcFWoA

I remember it very clearly, both drivers had a win at all costs cheat mode (both fabulous drivers as well of course). I could well be being naive but I think the older wiser Hamilton has better morals (on the race track) than both of them

 

[drew]

Fair argument. I'd still side with Verstappen's approach at Silverstone being right at the time. Benefit of hindsight and all that, the extra 18 (maybe 32?) points he'd have over Hamilton at this point would have the title pretty much sown up for him, but at the time and in that race ... I think it was reasonable for him to assume that Hamilton wouldn't miss the apex by so much. It was, in theory, a low-risk move based on how often the outside line works around that corner. Not least because as a driver you know that the driver on the inside knows the potential consequences of tipping the outside driver into a spin through there. Keep in mind that Hamilton himself got lucky that a red flag was thrown - he also had probable terminal damage on his car that was repairable during the break. (Now perhaps there is a rule that could be changed?)

Max's problem at Silverstone was that he was always used to others yielding to him and that occasion LH didn't.

 

[drew]

I remember it very clearly, both drivers had a win at all costs cheat mode (both fabulous drivers as well of course). I could well be being naive but I think the older wiser Hamilton has better morals (on the race track) than both of them

I agree about Hamilton's morals being in a better place.

Comparisons to Senna and Prost are way off as neither have/had, in my opinion, the moral compass of LH. Some 'champions' are win at all cost. Senna/Prost, Schumacher/Hill, Schumacher/Villeneuve.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Fair argument. I'd still side with Verstappen's approach at Silverstone being right at the time. Benefit of hindsight and all that, the extra 18 (maybe 32?) points he'd have over Hamilton at this point would have the title pretty much sown up for him, but at the time and in that race ... I think it was reasonable for him to assume that Hamilton wouldn't miss the apex by so much. It was, in theory, a low-risk move based on how often the outside line works around that corner. Not least because as a driver you know that the driver on the inside knows the potential consequences of tipping the outside driver into a spin through there. Keep in mind that Hamilton himself got lucky that a red flag was thrown - he also had probable terminal damage on his car that was repairable during the break. (Now perhaps there is a rule that could be changed?)

Verstappen’s judgement was out in Silverstone.

This is just prior to the corner. With Hamilton on the inside, where did Verstappen think he was going to go if he cut him off? Max was relying on Hamilton slamming the breaks on in the middle of an overtaking manoeuvre, naive from Max as Lewis was never going to make the apex at that angle.

Lewis had to draw a line in the sand at this stage of the Championship, if Lewis is crowned, people will look back at this incident as the moment Max lost the title.

 

[Audax]

Verstappen’s judgement was out in Silverstone.

This is just prior to the corner. With Hamilton on the inside, where did Verstappen think he was going to go if he cut him off? Max was relying on Hamilton slamming the breaks on in the middle of an overtaking manoeuvre, naive from Max as Lewis was never going to make the apex at that angle.

Lewis had to draw a line in the sand at this stage of the Championship, if Lewis is crowned, people will look back at this incident as the moment Max lost the title.

You can't use that one still image to judge that particular incident. Max didn't "cut him off". Roll forward several frames and you generate an image where Max has left Hamilton at least a car and a half space to use on the inside, and Hamilton hasn't used it. It was not unreasonable for Max to expect Hamilton to be a lot closer to the apex than he was. As I say, in hindsight it looks very bad for Max and it is very easy for us to say "he could/should have..." - but the reality is that you have to judge it while setting aside what we know actually happened. Max and Hamilton could go through the entry phase to that corner 100 times in similar positions and they'll get through just fine the vast majority of them. On that day, however, for whatever reason Hamilton misjudged his entry, ran well wide of the apex that he should have been hitting, and caused the contact that spun Max around.

Compare to the Hamilton pass on Leclerc at the same corner later in the same race. Leclerc also elected to run around the outside, left Hamilton space on the inside (less than Max did IMO), and they got through just fine - Hamilton backed off slightly more, hit the apex in the space Leclerc had left, and Leclerc ran wide on the exit handing the easy pass to Hamilton.

At the end of the day, as much as I really dislike Max, he was not to blame for that incident. It was 100% Hamilton's error, and Hamilton got lucky with the red flag. Without the red flag he wouldn't have finished the race either and the conversation right now would be very different.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Verstappen’s judgement was out in Silverstone.

This is just prior to the corner. With Hamilton on the inside, where did Verstappen think he was going to go if he cut him off? Max was relying on Hamilton slamming the breaks on in the middle of an overtaking manoeuvre, naive from Max as Lewis was never going to make the apex at that angle.

Lewis had to draw a line in the sand at this stage of the Championship, if Lewis is crowned, people will look back at this incident as the moment Max lost the title.

In the sprint race the previous day, people forget it was a procession and in all likelihood the actual GP would have been more of the same if Verstappen had got in the lead. Lewis knew it was do or die on that first lap as the RB would have dissapeared into the distance. If Max had yielded and bided his time, he'd have the Championship as good as in his pocket at this point in time even if he ended up in 2nd which I very much doubt he would have done. Max is fast and skillful but he still has a lot to learn on racecraft and having a boss in the shape of Horner deosn't help one bit. We can talk corners and god knows what until the cows come home but this was all about risk / reward given the context of the championship picture and events the previous day.

 

[Icy Gull]

RIP Frank Williams, a giant of F1

 

[Beach Hut]

Very sad day for motor sport

RIP

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

My Brothers lodger was until quite recently his carer.
Although he did not talk much about it, even when asked, I knew he was not quite the ticket for some time.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Very sad news. Sir Frank was a legend.

 

[Daddies_Sauce]

Devastated, Sir Frank was true fighter. Our daughter worked for Williams. Sir Frank would often wheel himself into her office, they spent hours chatting together during her time at the Factory. Williams held a Family day each year, where family members if the employees were able to attend a factory tour, not just the Williams museum, but areas that are normally out-of-bounds, I was so fortunate to attend a couple of occasions, and visit the advanced engineering facility, where the company was working with clients and implementing F1 technology into their products (including building the James Bond cars). The office is a bit like a doughnut with a court yard in the centre, Sir Frank would push himself around the offices circuit, timing himself in his wheelchair.

When Sir Frank found that our daughter was coming home to celebrate my birthday, both he and Claire recorded a birthday video for me, something that is saved and very special.

RIP Sir Frank

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Devastated, Sir Frank was true fighter. Our daughter worked for Williams. Sir Frank would often wheel himself into her office, they spent hours chatting together during her time at the Factory. Williams held a Family day each year, where family members if the employees were able to attend a factory tour, not just the Williams museum, but areas that are normally out-of-bounds, I was so fortunate to attend a couple of occasions, and visit the advanced engineering facility, where the company was working with clients and implementing F1 technology into their products (including building the James Bond cars). The office is a bit like a doughnut with a court yard in the centre, Sir Frank would push himself around the offices circuit, timing himself in his wheelchair.

When Sir Frank found that our daughter was coming home to celebrate my birthday, both he and Claire recorded a birthday video for me, something that is saved and very special.

RIP Sir Frank

Sorry for your loss.
I loved his passion and some of the racing memories he created over the years. When Claire took over must have been a very proud moment for him.
R.I.P Sir Frank

 

[Guinness Boy]

Sad news about Sir Frank, undoubtedly a legend. RIP.

 

[Daddies_Sauce]

Sorry for your loss.
I loved his passion and some of the racing memories he created over the years. When Claire took over must have been a very proud moment for him.
R.I.P Sir Frank

Indeed it was a very proud moment for Sir Frank, but there are many who believed it was the wrong decision: https://drivetribe.com/p/crisis-at-...F-kRT9m_LknZYsuJtQ?iid=U4y5Po3jSmGN1b4ovbCQkw.

If it was not for the the link between Toto Wollf (share holder), the Mercedes engine deal and the Martini sponsorship (that was only confirmed at the very last moment) then Williams may not have survived to today.

Williams had to prepare for the day that Sir Frank was no longer with us, one of his favourite films was 'Top Gun' as can be seen in the video that Williams Racing released yesterday on their social media platforms. (I wonder who prepared that)