[Misc] F1 2021

[KeegansHairPiece]

I’m going to throw out a bit of advocacy for Verstappen here - when he exited his car, Hamilton’s was still running, he’d found reverse gear and was trying to see if he could move his Merc. With his wheels spinning as Max walked away it was pretty clear Lewis was fine. It may well have been unsafe to have approached the Merc with it still trying to move.

 

[Bry Nylon]

Verstappen bounced his car virtually on to Hamilton's head and wouldn't even check if Lewis was alright. That is beyond aggression in sport. That suggests he did it on purpose and achieved his aim. Chilling.

I think it is a step too far to suggest that Verstappen knew or intended that his car would end up on top of the Mercedes. I believe his intention was to force Hamilton to yield and if he did not, then he was prepared to accept the risk of a collision. There is no way he could have known for sure the contact would have catapulted his car on top of Hamilton's cockpit in the way it did.

But as I said in an earlier post, all these incidents that are resulting in 'near misses' (with regard to a very serious outcome) are simply leading up to the big one, when they won't both walk away relatively unscathed. When it happens, it will be classed as a 'terrible accident' or 'freak circumstances' - but deeper analysis will point to the fact that all these previous incidents involving a driver who simply will not compromise was only ever going to have one outcome.

Sunday could have been that day. A low speed, fairly innocuous collision that freakishly was just inches from breaking Hamilton's neck. In fact, had Verstappen's right rear tyre deflated on the initial impact then there is every chance the hub would have penetrated into Hamilton's cockpit rather than rolling over the top of the halo structure

Somehow, someone needs to work with Verstappen in a way that maintains his competitive edge and desire to win but reduces the risk of him killing himself or somebody else every time he gets in the car.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I think it is a step too far to suggest that Verstappen knew or intended that his car would end up on top of the Mercedes. I believe his intention was to force Hamilton to yield and if he did not, then accept the inevitable collision. There is no way he could have known for sure the contact would have catapulted his car on top of Hamilton's cockpit in the way it did.

But as I said in an earlier post, all these incidents that are resulting in 'near misses' (with regard to a very serious outcome) are simply leading up to the big one, when they won't both walk away relatively unscathed. When it happens, it will be classed as a 'terrible accident' or 'freak circumstances' - but deeper analysis will point to the fact that all these previous incidents involving a driver who simply will not compromise was only ever going to have one outcome.

Sunday could have been that day. A low speed, fairly innocuous collision that freakishly was just inches from breaking Hamilton's neck. In fact, had Verstappen's right rear tyre deflated on the initial impact then there is every chance the hub would have penetrated into Hamilton's cockpit rather than riding over the top of it.

Somehow, someone needs to work with Verstappen in a way that maintains his competitive edge and desire to win but reduces the risk of him killing himself or somebody else every time he gets in the car.

Agree it's only a matter of time before a serious one. No idea how Grosjean got away with that crash into the barrier at the end of last year. Quite a few near misses with cars trundling around during qualifying as well. F1 has been riding it's luck for a while now.

I'm hopeful Max will have reflected on this and will take on board what could have happenned.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I think it is a step too far to suggest that Verstappen knew or intended that his car would end up on top of the Mercedes. I believe his intention was to force Hamilton to yield and if he did not, then he was prepared to accept the risk of a collision. There is no way he could have known for sure the contact would have catapulted his car on top of Hamilton's cockpit in the way it did.

But as I said in an earlier post, all these incidents that are resulting in 'near misses' (with regard to a very serious outcome) are simply leading up to the big one, when they won't both walk away relatively unscathed. When it happens, it will be classed as a 'terrible accident' or 'freak circumstances' - but deeper analysis will point to the fact that all these previous incidents involving a driver who simply will not compromise was only ever going to have one outcome.

Sunday could have been that day. A low speed, fairly innocuous collision that freakishly was just inches from breaking Hamilton's neck. In fact, had Verstappen's right rear tyre deflated on the initial impact then there is every chance the hub would have penetrated into Hamilton's cockpit rather than rolling over the top of the halo structure

Somehow, someone needs to work with Verstappen in a way that maintains his competitive edge and desire to win but reduces the risk of him killing himself or somebody else every time he gets in the car.

Yeh, of course that wasn't something which Max could have predicted.

 

[disgruntled h blocker]

Agree it's only a matter of time before a serious one. No idea how Grosjean got away with that crash into the barrier at the end of last year. Quite a few near misses with cars trundling around during qualifying as well. F1 has been riding it's luck for a while now.

I'm hopeful Max will have reflected on this and will take on board what could have happenned.

There are sadly too many examples where Max has simply failed to reflect on his mistakes in the past and then blamed the opposition as they "knew he was coming through". It will take him to do a few "Banzai" attempts and for him to end up worse up. It's a sad enditement that Daniil Kvyat matured more than Max has.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

I think it is a step too far to suggest that Verstappen knew or intended that his car would end up on top of the Mercedes. I believe his intention was to force Hamilton to yield and if he did not, then he was prepared to accept the risk of a collision. There is no way he could have known for sure the contact would have catapulted his car on top of Hamilton's cockpit in the way it did.

But as I said in an earlier post, all these incidents that are resulting in 'near misses' (with regard to a very serious outcome) are simply leading up to the big one, when they won't both walk away relatively unscathed. When it happens, it will be classed as a 'terrible accident' or 'freak circumstances' - but deeper analysis will point to the fact that all these previous incidents involving a driver who simply will not compromise was only ever going to have one outcome.

Sunday could have been that day. A low speed, fairly innocuous collision that freakishly was just inches from breaking Hamilton's neck. In fact, had Verstappen's right rear tyre deflated on the initial impact then there is every chance the hub would have penetrated into Hamilton's cockpit rather than rolling over the top of the halo structure

Somehow, someone needs to work with Verstappen in a way that maintains his competitive edge and desire to win but reduces the risk of him killing himself or somebody else every time he gets in the car.

Let's not forget Hamilton and Massa had 6 collisions in a single season when the McClaren and Ferrari were the 2 fastest cars on the track. Even team mates like Webber - Vettell, Hamilton - Rosberg, Senna - Prost when going for a title end up colliding when going for a title.

Too many tracks where you can't overtake unless you're 2+mph faster, tyres that go off too quick, aerodynamics that make following too difficult all make 2 competitors of similar pace fighting for a title almost inevitably are going to come together as to pass a car of similar pace you simply have to take a risk. Hamilton took that risk at turn 4 and backed out, Verstappen took the risk at turn 2 and didn't - he was going to hit Hamilton whether in the spot he did, or if Lewis had gone even wider, he'd have hit him on the exit at the speed he was going - hence the penalty I think, there was no way Verstappen was going to make that move at the speed he was going at.

 

[drew]

I think it is a step too far to suggest that Verstappen knew or intended that his car would end up on top of the Mercedes. I believe his intention was to force Hamilton to yield and if he did not, then he was prepared to accept the risk of a collision. There is no way he could have known for sure the contact would have catapulted his car on top of Hamilton's cockpit in the way it did.

But as I said in an earlier post, all these incidents that are resulting in 'near misses' (with regard to a very serious outcome) are simply leading up to the big one, when they won't both walk away relatively unscathed. When it happens, it will be classed as a 'terrible accident' or 'freak circumstances' - but deeper analysis will point to the fact that all these previous incidents involving a driver who simply will not compromise was only ever going to have one outcome.

Sunday could have been that day. A low speed, fairly innocuous collision that freakishly was just inches from breaking Hamilton's neck. In fact, had Verstappen's right rear tyre deflated on the initial impact then there is every chance the hub would have penetrated into Hamilton's cockpit rather than rolling over the top of the halo structure

Somehow, someone needs to work with Verstappen in a way that maintains his competitive edge and desire to win but reduces the risk of him killing himself or somebody else every time he gets in the car.

He didn't know what the actual outcome would be but he did know that if neither backed off there would be a collision and as Hamilton was ahead, Verstappen should have been the one to either ease of or cut the corner. He didn't and I doubt that he ever will.

His ego has been over inflated by the racing fraternity to the extent he thinks he has every right to do what he does.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-58559255

Nothing to do with Lewis or Max...just an F1 fan being arrested at gun point after being mistaken for a Mafia boss.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-58559255

Nothing to do with Lewis or Max...just an F1 fan being arrested at gun point after being mistaken for a Mafia boss.

Though, we could lay the blame with Max ... just in case

 

[Creaky]

I find it difficult to envisage some of the thought process that others assume are taking place in Verstappen’s head whilst negotiating the chicane.

His attempt to go around the outside of Hamilton at the first part of the chicane was almost successful - we’re talking a matter of feet from being successful. Once he failed to get in front he had less than a second to decide his next move. He took the wrong one and the crash occurred. There is little doubt that he made the wrong decision but to suggest that in making it he had time to consider all sorts of motives, outcomes etc. seems ludicrous.

 

[rogersix]

I find it difficult to envisage some of the thought process that others assume are taking place in Verstappen’s head whilst negotiating the chicane.

His attempt to go around the outside of Hamilton at the first part of the chicane was almost successful - we’re talking a matter of feet from being successful. Once he failed to get in front he had less than a second to decide his next move. He took the wrong one and the crash occurred. There is little doubt that he made the wrong decision but to suggest that in making it he had time to consider all sorts of motives, outcomes etc. seems ludicrous.

he decided to never yield, a very long time ago

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Though, we could lay the blame with Max ... just in case

It did happen in the Netherlands so you're probably right, it was almost definitely carried out at Max's behest. He just doesn't know where to draw the line

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

I find it difficult to envisage some of the thought process that others assume are taking place in Verstappen’s head whilst negotiating the chicane.

His attempt to go around the outside of Hamilton at the first part of the chicane was almost successful - we’re talking a matter of feet from being successful. Once he failed to get in front he had less than a second to decide his next move. He took the wrong one and the crash occurred. There is little doubt that he made the wrong decision but to suggest that in making it he had time to consider all sorts of motives, outcomes etc. seems ludicrous.

What we don't know is whether the speed he took into turn 1 was too fast to have made turn 2 and I guess that remains hypothetical. He says Lewis squeezed him, but I think he is already struggling to make the corner anyway. Had Lewis braked hard veered to his right and gave a completely clear run for MV, I wouldn't be that surprised if Verstappen would have overshot the exit completely and ended up off the track with Lewis regaining the place.

 

[A1X]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-58559255

Nothing to do with Lewis or Max...just an F1 fan being arrested at gun point after being mistaken for a Mafia boss.

He's been on the run for 28 years. Or as Haas would put it, "an impressive time difference to the Red Bulls and Mercs".

 

[Easy 10]

Are we SURE Hamilton is over that bump on the head ? I think he may need checking again.

 

[Audax]

Time to bump this thread back up, as the circus heads to Sochi this weekend.

Right on cue, Haas have announced that they'll be retaining both Mazepin and Mick Schumacher for 2022. With Vettel recently confirming he's staying at Aston, I *think* that leaves just one seat on the 2022 grid yet to be confirmed: Giovinazzi's seat at Alfa Romeo. From what I've seen, that will either remain Giovinazzi's or possibly got to Guanyu Zhou, currently second in the Formula 2 title race.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Time to bump this thread back up, as the circus heads to Sochi this weekend.

Right on cue, Haas have announced that they'll be retaining both Mazepin and Mick Schumacher for 2022. With Vettel recently confirming he's staying at Aston, I *think* that leaves just one seat on the 2022 grid yet to be confirmed: Giovinazzi's seat at Alfa Romeo. From what I've seen, that will either remain Giovinazzi's or possibly got to Guanyu Zhou, currently second in the Formula 2 title race.

I was a little surprised Haas retained both of those. I get the reasons why they chose to, but neither have performed. Even if they can improve the car for the new rules, I don't see their drivers being good enough to get them up the field. Their current direct competitors will have superior drivers.

Gio solid but unspectacular. I'd keep him if I was them, but I know nothing about the alternatives.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

I was a little surprised Haas retained both of those. I get the reasons why they chose to, but neither have performed. Even if they can improve the car for the new rules, I don't see their drivers being good enough to get them up the field. Their current direct competitors will have superior drivers.

Gio solid but unspectacular. I'd keep him if I was them, but I know nothing about the alternatives.

Bit unfair on Mick Schu. He has got there on merit winning - an albeit far from vintage - F2 Championship last year and is by far the better of the 2 Haas drivers. We all know Mazepin is there via a large wallet but he was good enough to finish 5th in the championship and ahead of Zhou last year. He's not completely hopeless.

The Haas is really bad as well. It's been lapped by the Alphas and Williams in some races such is the dearth of pace. I don't think Hamilton or Alonso could get that car higher than 19th. Can only really judge him when it can race at least one of the cars at the back.

 

[Audax]

Bit unfair on Mick Schu. He has got there on merit winning - an albeit far from vintage - F2 Championship last year and is by far the better of the 2 Haas drivers. We all know Mazepin is there via a large wallet but he was good enough to finish 5th in the championship and ahead of Zhou last year. He's not completely hopeless.

The Haas is really bad as well. It's been lapped by the Alphas and Williams in some races such is the dearth of pace. I don't think Hamilton or Alonso could get that car higher than 19th. Can only really judge him when it can race at least one of the cars at the back.

Yep, I'd agree with all of that. Also worth noting that Mick Schu in his junior career had tendency to start slow, and then something would "click" into place for him and he'd suddenly show dominant pace. Much like his dad, I think - he's got enough talent, but it's the sort of talent that needs to be unlocked through hard work and learning rather than being raw pace ala Verstappen.

And that Haas car is a massive limiting factor: IMO I think Schu has consistently found its limits (and beyond at times). Mazepin has been all over the place. But if Schu is genuinely hitting the car's limits, we may not be seeing all of his talent and if the car is improved next year (should do - they sacrificed 2021 completely to focus on 2022) it's likely he'll improve more, and more immediately, than Mazepin and the gap between the two will grow.

 

[Audax]

And that Haas car is a massive limiting factor: [...] they sacrificed 2021 completely to focus on 2022 [...]

Was reading an article that touched on this yesterday, Turns out the Haas car has had pretty much zero development since early 2020. Forget the fact that the 2021 car is just the 2020 car updated for the new floor rules with no other development, the 2020 car itself never received any upgrades (they'd signed off a bunch of updates, but when the pandemic hit and threw everything into chaos they never actually put the upgrades into production and thus the car never received them).

So Schu and Mazespin have essentially been driving an early, undeveloped, 2020 car. In that respect, it's remarkable they've not been even further behind than they have been.