Evolution and Big Bang are lies from Hell

[DavidinSouthampton]

Hi David. Wouldn't a lot of mainstream Christian groups say that you wouldn't get to heaven just by doing good stuff but have to believe certain things about Jesus and the Bible as well? So that must be regarded as pretty important too.

I wouldn't profess to be an expert on such things, and if that is the case, I probably won't get to heaven. To bring it down to basics, if you have "done wrong" and genuinely repent of it, you will be alright. I have put done wrong in inverted commas, because different people might have different ideas of what might constitute doing wrong.

Just out of interest, there was an article in the Guardian recently about an enormously respected german theologian called Hans Kung - an exact contemporary of the current pope, with whom he was at College. Herr Kung was stripped of his priesthood by the previous pope, apparently, for calling in to question the concept of papal infallibility. So people within the Churches differ too. All I could do was thank God that I am not a catholic.... with apologies to any who are.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

Because the vast majority of believers, theologians, biblical scholars and so on and so on would accept and agree that it is a story. I am not expected to believe it, not that I would believe it even if I was expected to believe it. i don't think you would find any mainstream Christian Church in this country which would not accept the Theory of Evolution. It would not, therefore, be a leap of faith to accept the creation story, it would be the rejection of a very well accepted Theory of Evolution. I am not a Southern States of America Baptist Fundamentalist.


No children are taught - or if they are, they shouldn't be - that a woman got pregnant without the involvement of a man. They may be taught that this is what Christians Believe. I think I do believe it, but realise there is plenty of room for doubt, including my own.

What is far more important is what he has inspired people to do over the years. There is the argument that wars are started because of religion, but putting that aside, how about Christian Aid, CAFOD (the Catholic Aid Agency), and all the other church or faith based agencies for good that are doing sterling work in the world - the Red Cross and the Red crescent (The Muslim Version.

And closer to home, is there a Basics Bank in Brighton? If there is, I would hazard a guess that it is run by a Church or Churches or a faith based organisation. The same for homeless shelters, support for alcoholics, plenty of voluntary stuff around the unemployed, ex-offenders and so on and so on.

Try finding the bits whhich encourage people to clothe the naked, feed the hungry, give water to the thirsty, visit the prisoners - in fact, more than encourage, it will tell you that it is wrong if you don't.

That is what matters.

Edit - try reading Matthew chapter 25, verses 31 to 46

We are not all Christian...does that make me a bad man because I don't believe...what about Vicars telling grieving families to take down headstones from their child graves because it does'nt fit in with their ideal of a churchyard...or the the clergy that have abused children over the years...or the churchman who abused one of my school friends....there are good clergymen but please don't think just because they are men of the cloth that are are pure or untouchable.

 

[Dandyman]

I wouldn't profess to be an expert on such things, and if that is the case, I probably won't get to heaven. To bring it down to basics, if you have "done wrong" and genuinely repent of it, you will be alright. I have put done wrong in inverted commas, because different people might have different ideas of what might constitute doing wrong.

Just out of interest, there was an article in the Guardian recently about an enormously respected german theologian called Hans Kung - an exact contemporary of the current pope, with whom he was at College. Herr Kung was stripped of his priesthood by the previous pope, apparently, for calling in to question the concept of papal infallibility. So people within the Churches differ too. All I could do was thank God that I am not a catholic.... with apologies to any who are.

Sorry, David but surely to be a Christian you have to believe in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour and that salvation comes only through that belief (possibly that's overly Lutheran but you get the point). If you believe that others can reach Heaven then does that not make being a Christian rather redundant ?

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

So, if we do justice, love mercy but regard theism as stone age drivel we will still burn for eternity ?

Personally, no, I don't think so. I work with a lot of people outside the Church for whom I would have a lot more time than many inside the Churches. Some of the best people I know are fervent atheists.

I hope there is no danger of getting banned or anything for any of this stuff. I am only trying to answer questions and continue a debate.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Sorry, David but surely to be a Christian you have to believe in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour and that salvation comes only through that belief (possibly that's overly Lutheran but you get the point). If you believe that others can reach Heaven then does that not make being a Christian rather redundant ?

I take your point and you are right. I am probably just more liberal than most.

I'll probably get excommunicated or banned soon.

 

[JonathanLivingstonSeagull]

So which is it? Either you can believe in God and science or you can't. You said you can't but now you're backpedaling.

how about YOU answer the BODY of my arguments rather than squealing to ME for answers? Rather TYPICAL of a christian attitude, don't you think?

Are you LAZY or MERELY ignorant?

 

[Silk]

how about YOU answer the BODY of my arguments rather than squealing to ME for answers? Rather TYPICAL of a christian attitude, don't you think?

Are you LAZY or MERELY ignorant?

The fact is, sonny, there are plenty of "credible" scientists who also believe in God. And I'm not a Christian as it happens.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

We are not all Christian...does that make me a bad man because I don't believe...what about Vicars telling grieving families to take down headstones from their child graves because it does'nt fit in with their ideal of a churchyard...or the the clergy that have abused children over the years...or the churchman who abused one of my school friends....there are good clergymen but please don't think just because they are men of the cloth that are are pure or untouchable.

Nobody becomes bad because they don't believe in something.

And priests etc who indulge in child abuse are as bad as anybody else who does the same thing. Or rather they are worse because they are abusing a position of trust and responsibility, and abusing it most horribly.

I have never said that men of the cloth are untouchable - quite the opposite. They should be beyond reproach, but.....

When ordained people become precious about what they will or will not allow, most of what they are doing would in my view be fairly fatuous. There was a vicar who refused to allow "My way" to be used in funerals. I can understand his reasons, because the words are as if from a miserable curmudgeonly old git who never had time for anyone else. One could discuss it with the family, explain to them why you questioned their choice, but at the end of the day, if it was me and if it was really what they wanted, they would have it.

 

[Dandyman]

I take your point and you are right. I am probably just more liberal than most.

I'll probably get excommunicated or banned soon.

Hopefully not. Although I am an atheist, I think your responses are more considered and measured than many on here.

 

[Dandyman]

repeat..please ignore...

 

[00snook]

Doesn't science 'believe' the Higgs Boson exists?

It was proven to exist in an experIment the Large Hadron Collider a few months ago.


Professor Higgs was brought to tears.

 

[BadFish]

I only wonder where that energy came from to create that bang, not just energy but enough energy to create the universe and secondly there was no physical matter in the universe, where did the matter come from to create that enormous explosion Just a thought.

Where did the energy come from to create god? And who created it? Surely something so wonderful could not have been created by accident?

 

[Silk]

I wouldn't profess to be an expert on such things, and if that is the case, I probably won't get to heaven. To bring it down to basics, if you have "done wrong" and genuinely repent of it, you will be alright. I have put done wrong in inverted commas, because different people might have different ideas of what might constitute doing wrong.

Just out of interest, there was an article in the Guardian recently about an enormously respected german theologian called Hans Kung - an exact contemporary of the current pope, with whom he was at College. Herr Kung was stripped of his priesthood by the previous pope, apparently, for calling in to question the concept of papal infallibility. So people within the Churches differ too. All I could do was thank God that I am not a catholic.... with apologies to any who are.

I'm guessing you might be a liberal C of E clergyman, United Reformed, Methodist, something like that?

 

[BadFish]

Einstein also famously said 'god does not play dice'

He certainly didnt believe in a personal God thats true, but he never described himself as an atheist either.

From wickipedia;
'"I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and the doings of mankind."'

Until recently it was very wise to conceal ones atheist beliefs.

 

[Bold Seagull]

It was proven to exist in an experIment the Large Hadron Collider a few months ago.


Professor Higgs was brought to tears.

You need to do a little more reading on that subject matter before making such grand statements. What they found was the first trace evidence of the behaviour they expect to find from the boson. It really is far from being proved yet.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

Nobody becomes bad because they don't believe in something.

And priests etc who indulge in child abuse are as bad as anybody else who does the same thing. Or rather they are worse because they are abusing a position of trust and responsibility, and abusing it most horribly.

I have never said that men of the cloth are untouchable - quite the opposite. They should be beyond reproach, but.....

When ordained people become precious about what they will or will not allow, most of what they are doing would in my view be fairly fatuous. There was a vicar who refused to allow "My way" to be used in funerals. I can understand his reasons, because the words are as if from a miserable curmudgeonly old git who never had time for anyone else. One could discuss it with the family, explain to them why you questioned their choice, but at the end of the day, if it was me and if it was really what they wanted, they would have it.

Respect your view if thats what you believe...but why do the religious try and shove their views upon others...you have your views...I have mine...Btw you talk of the song 'My Way' so you think because Sinatra sang the song...(as many others did.)..that they are 'Miserable Curmudgeonly old gits....do you know who wrote that song ?? The man who has done so much for charity ...a certain Mr Paul Anka...so to me your ideals have fallen flat at the first fence.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

I'm guessing you might be a liberal C of E clergyman, United Reformed, Methodist, something like that?

I am not a clergyman - I am a Methodist. very perceptive.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Respect your view if thats what you believe...but why do the religious try and shove their views upon others...you have your views...I have mine...Btw you talk of the song 'My Way' so you think because Sinatra sang the song...(as many others did.)..that they are 'Miserable Curmudgeonly old gits....do you know who wrote that song ?? The man who has done so much for charity ...a certain Mr Paul Anka...so to me your ideals have fallen flat at the first fence.

Hey, now - hang on a minute.

I don't think I am trying to foist my views upon others. For the most part I have only been answering questions. But mainly, about the somg My Way, the miserable curmudgeonly old git bit would be the interpretation of clergy who would not allow it to be used. I can understand how they came to that conclusion, but i was not condoning what they would do - in fact, quite the opposite.

And just because someone writes or sings a song doesn't mean they "are" that song. Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein. Bram Stoker wrote Dracula. neither of them were a man-made monster or a vampire. I had every respect for Frank Sinatra, have every respect for frank sinatra and do not follow your logic about my ideals falling flat at the first fence.

 

[Brightonfan1983]

The earth is but 9000 years old and was created in 6 days as we know them

And fossils were put here "by God just to f*ck with us" (Bill Hicks)

 

[Mutts Nuts]

Until recently it was very wise to conceal ones atheist beliefs.

Not long ago the buggers believing in the same god were burning each other at the stake , ie the Catholics and the protestants, roll on bonfire night at Lewes