Evolution and Big Bang are lies from Hell

[Triggaaar]

For me, The Creation Story is clearly a story. I have been trained to accept it as a story, I didn't need to be trained to accept it as a story because I would not have accepted it as a true account anyway, so although I am prepared to accept that some people accept it as the truth, I think that those who do accept it as the truth are incredibly naive.
...
I am prepared to accept the idea of the virgin birth

Do you not realise how ridiculous that is? If you're prepared to take the leap of faith for the virgin birth, then why can't you take the same leap for the creation story?

Would you want Children to be taught that the Germans won the Second World war or that France is a part of Australasia?

That would be no more daft than teaching them that a woman got pregnant without the involvement of a man.

 

[Bhafcman]

Do you not realise how ridiculous that is? If you're prepared to take the leap of faith for the virgin birth, then why can't you take the same leap for the creation story?
That would be no more daft than teaching them that a woman got pregnant without the involvement of a man.

There in lies the problem for me with Christianity and the Bible, christians will tell you that something is not meant to be taken literally when it suits the agenda but that something else is meant to be taken literally when it does, not a direct reference to you David

 

[Acker79]

Other possible explanations? Surely there are only 2, his Mum & Dad enjoyed a proper bit of carnal pleasure around late March time, or he didn't exist. What other possibilities have you considered?

There's the theory that Mary was raped by a roman soldier. I suppose there are other variations on this (consensual sex with a roman soldier raped or consensual sex with someone who wasn't a roman soldier).

Also, the actual date of christ's birth is believed to have been variously august - october, depending on whose research you believe. I think some suggest that the 25th of december is the date of conception rather than birth.

 

[Don Quixote]

He could be right, how would you know?

 

[JonathanLivingstonSeagull]

Why don't YOU say what it is that makes you think scientists are all atheists?

i didn't say all scientists are atheists. scientists can be credible in their field of work if for example they ascribe to stephen j. gould's notion of 'non-overlapping magisteria' regarding science and religion. if they are trying to prove christian or other religious ideas with their work they are putting the cart before the horse and forsaking their credibility. that's about the state of it.

so, for sake of argument - all CREDIBLE scientists are atheists. or at least not engaged in trying to use science on pig-in-a-poke nonsense out of an iron age desert-tribal book full of grandly vile immorality.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Do you not realise how ridiculous that is? If you're prepared to take the leap of faith for the virgin birth, then why can't you take the same leap for the creation story?
That would be no more daft than teaching them that a woman got pregnant without the involvement of a man.

Because the vast majority of believers, theologians, biblical scholars and so on and so on would accept and agree that it is a story. I am not expected to believe it, not that I would believe it even if I was expected to believe it. i don't think you would find any mainstream Christian Church in this country which would not accept the Theory of Evolution. It would not, therefore, be a leap of faith to accept the creation story, it would be the rejection of a very well accepted Theory of Evolution. I am not a Southern States of America Baptist Fundamentalist.

No children are taught - or if they are, they shouldn't be - that a woman got pregnant without the involvement of a man. They may be taught that this is what Christians Believe. I think I do believe it, but realise there is plenty of room for doubt, including my own.

What is far more important is what he has inspired people to do over the years. There is the argument that wars are started because of religion, but putting that aside, how about Christian Aid, CAFOD (the Catholic Aid Agency), and all the other church or faith based agencies for good that are doing sterling work in the world - the Red Cross and the Red crescent (The Muslim Version.

And closer to home, is there a Basics Bank in Brighton? If there is, I would hazard a guess that it is run by a Church or Churches or a faith based organisation. The same for homeless shelters, support for alcoholics, plenty of voluntary stuff around the unemployed, ex-offenders and so on and so on.

Try finding the bits whhich encourage people to clothe the naked, feed the hungry, give water to the thirsty, visit the prisoners - in fact, more than encourage, it will tell you that it is wrong if you don't.

That is what matters.

Edit - try reading Matthew chapter 25, verses 31 to 46

 

[Silk]

i didn't say all scientists are atheists. scientists can be credible in their field of work if for example they ascribe to stephen j. gould's notion of 'non-overlapping magisteria' regarding science and religion. if they are trying to prove christian or other religious ideas with their work they are putting the cart before the horse and forsaking their credibility. that's about the state of it.

so, for sake of argument - all CREDIBLE scientists are atheists. or at least not engaged in trying to use science on pig-in-a-poke nonsense out of an iron age desert-tribal book full of grandly vile immorality.

So which is it? Either you can believe in God and science or you can't. You said you can't but now you're backpedaling.

 

[Mutts Nuts]

Seeing as we're going on these lines again, anyone seen this?

The 2 arguments against pretty much hit the nail on the head

 

[Dandyman]

Einstein also famously said 'god does not play dice'

He certainly didnt believe in a personal God thats true, but he never described himself as an atheist either.

From wickipedia;
'"I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and the doings of mankind."'

Chimneys quote is from a letter written by Einstein and is fairly self-evident in it's meaning. The idea that the most powerful nation on Earth contains so many theocratic cretins in positions of power is actually scarey.

 

[Twizzle]

Not in agreement with Mike Huckabee, then? Huckabee to Akin: 'Horrible' rapes created some extraordinary people - Los Angeles Times

I don't see how you get that from my post.
It may be that special people ARE indeed products of rape, it's churlish to suggest that a human is any different in their physical form due to the manner of their conception. I refer to the stigmas that are present for the mother, and how she may regard and remember the 'wonder' of that initial act.

 

[Dandyman]

Because the vast majority of believers, theologians, biblical scholars and so on and so on would accept and agree that it is a story. I am not expected to believe it, not that I would believe it even if I was expected to believe it. i don't think you would find any mainstream Christian Church in this country which would not accept the Theory of Evolution. It would not, therefore, be a leap of faith to accept the creation story, it would be the rejection of a very well accepted Theory of Evolution. I am not a Southern States of America Baptist Fundamentalist.

No children are taught - or if they are, they shouldn't be - that a woman got pregnant without the involvement of a man. They may be taught that this is what Christians Believe. I think I do believe it, but realise there is plenty of room for doubt, including my own.

What is far more important is what he has inspired people to do over the years. There is the argument that wars are started because of religion, but putting that aside, how about Christian Aid, CAFOD (the Catholic Aid Agency), and all the other church or faith based agencies for good that are doing sterling work in the world - the Red Cross and the Red crescent (The Muslim Version.

And closer to home, is there a Basics Bank in Brighton? If there is, I would hazard a guess that it is run by a Church or Churches or a faith based organisation. The same for homeless shelters, support for alcoholics, plenty of voluntary stuff around the unemployed, ex-offenders and so on and so on.

Try finding the bits whhich encourage people to clothe the naked, feed the hungry, give water to the thirsty, visit the prisoners - in fact, more than encourage, it will tell you that it is wrong if you don't.

That is what matters.

Edit - try reading Matthew chapter 25, verses 31 to 46

The verses you refer to are about the Day of Judgement "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal" So who are the damned and who are the saved in your world ?

 

[Twizzle]

How many people does the devil actually kill in the bible? How many does god kill? I can't help thinking that some may have got things the wrong way around somewhere. (Assuming it is not all a fairy tale and bears some material relevance of course).

A sentient point - but only if one is taking Biblical doctrine seriously!
The conundrum is there that you have to seriously believe one to take the other into consideration.

 

[Acker79]

I don't see how you get that from my post.
It may be that special people ARE indeed products of rape, it's churlish to suggest that a human is any different in their physical form due to the manner of their conception. I refer to the stigmas that are present for the mother, and how she may regard and remember the 'wonder' of that initial act.

I didn't get anything from your post, really. It just reminded me of the controversy of huckabee's comments and linking the article about it seemed to fit with the topic at the time

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

There in lies the problem for me with Christianity and the Bible, christians will tell you that something is not meant to be taken literally when it suits the agenda but that something else is meant to be taken literally when it does, not a direct reference to you David

Don't worry, I am not taking anything personally.

I would recommend everyone to come at it all with a healthy dose of scepticism. As someone who does preach, i would rather people come to me afterwards and say "that was a load of rubbish" rather than "Nice Service". At least it would show that they listened and are thinking about it enough to disagree!

One of my key quotations is from an Old testament prophet - Micah - "What does the Lord require of you but to do justice, Love Mercy and walk humbly with your God". I don't think any Southern baptist fundamentalists have read that bit.

Sorry if I am preaching!

 

[Silk]

Because the vast majority of believers, theologians, biblical scholars and so on and so on would accept and agree that it is a story. I am not expected to believe it, not that I would believe it even if I was expected to believe it. i don't think you would find any mainstream Christian Church in this country which would not accept the Theory of Evolution. It would not, therefore, be a leap of faith to accept the creation story, it would be the rejection of a very well accepted Theory of Evolution. I am not a Southern States of America Baptist Fundamentalist.

No children are taught - or if they are, they shouldn't be - that a woman got pregnant without the involvement of a man. They may be taught that this is what Christians Believe. I think I do believe it, but realise there is plenty of room for doubt, including my own.

What is far more important is what he has inspired people to do over the years. There is the argument that wars are started because of religion, but putting that aside, how about Christian Aid, CAFOD (the Catholic Aid Agency), and all the other church or faith based agencies for good that are doing sterling work in the world - the Red Cross and the Red crescent (The Muslim Version.

And closer to home, is there a Basics Bank in Brighton? If there is, I would hazard a guess that it is run by a Church or Churches or a faith based organisation. The same for homeless shelters, support for alcoholics, plenty of voluntary stuff around the unemployed, ex-offenders and so on and so on.

Try finding the bits whhich encourage people to clothe the naked, feed the hungry, give water to the thirsty, visit the prisoners - in fact, more than encourage, it will tell you that it is wrong if you don't.

That is what matters.

Edit - try reading Matthew chapter 25, verses 31 to 46

Hi David. Wouldn't a lot of mainstream Christian groups say that you wouldn't get to heaven just by doing good stuff but have to believe certain things about Jesus and the Bible as well? So that must be regarded as pretty important too.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

It didn't 'come' from anywhere, it has always been there. Eternity is a concept we struggle to deal with, especially when waiting for a pie in the WSU.

 

[Bold Seagull]

There's the theory that Mary was raped by a roman soldier. I suppose there are other variations on this (consensual sex with a roman soldier raped or consensual sex with someone who wasn't a roman soldier).

Also, the actual date of christ's birth is believed to have been variously august - october, depending on whose research you believe. I think some suggest that the 25th of december is the date of conception rather than birth.

i.e. alternatives as in he was born naturally, or not at all. I should have realised someone would get more specific....

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

The verses you refer to are about the Day of Judgement "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal" So who are the damned and who are the saved in your world ?

For me, it is about doing good, or not doing good - nothing more and nothing less. And I am not going to judge - "Judge not lest ye be judged" - I am certainly not working on the basis that I personally am assured of being with the sheep (the good guys) rather than the goats (the bad guys).

 

[Mutts Nuts]

Don't worry, I am not taking anything personally.

I would recommend everyone to come at it all with a healthy dose of scepticism. As someone who does preach, i would rather people come to me afterwards and say "that was a load of rubbish" rather than "Nice Service". At least it would show that they listened and are thinking about it enough to disagree!

One of my key quotations is from an Old testament prophet - Micah - "What does the Lord require of you but to do justice, Love Mercy and walk humbly with your God". I don't think any Southern baptist fundamentalists have read that bit.

Sorry if I am preaching!

I don`t thinks southern baptist fundamentalists can read, they are just preaching garbage that has been handed down over generations by there inbread ancestors

 

[Dandyman]

Don't worry, I am not taking anything personally.

I would recommend everyone to come at it all with a healthy dose of scepticism. As someone who does preach, i would rather people come to me afterwards and say "that was a load of rubbish" rather than "Nice Service". At least it would show that they listened and are thinking about it enough to disagree!

One of my key quotations is from an Old testament prophet - Micah - "What does the Lord require of you but to do justice, Love Mercy and walk humbly with your God". I don't think any Southern baptist fundamentalists have read that bit.

Sorry if I am preaching!

So, if we do justice, love mercy but regard theism as stone age drivel we will still burn for eternity ?