[Football] Everton deduction reduced to 6 points [Update 8/4: ...and another 2 points]

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Like what?

Maybe like, Guardiola will have to dress up like Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz and be chased around the Etihad by a drunk, horny Shane Duffy?

 

[halbpro]

Surely if you're going to be putting in rules like PSR, the clubs, the independent commission and all stakeholders need to have some clear reference as to the punishments. They may have done this, but if so the commission has been completely incompetent in applying it

I believe the league did propose detailed punishments for types of PSR breaches. However the clubs voted it down. That's why a regulator is needed really, clubs set the rules they're holding themselves to.

 

[Seagull27]

Whether the original deductions and/or appeals were correct or not, changing points at this stage in the season must have an effect on the teams around Everton.

Hopefully it galvanises them rather than demoralises - but the PL needs to find a way of completing points deductions and appeals within a shorter timeframe, preferably at the start of the season.

 

[Soton Seagull]

The precursor to City finally being done and then penalty reduced on appeal. This was a practice run.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Must be the lamest chant in English football.

What about the citeh, citeh one?

 

[Beanstalk]

I'd like to know why the Everton case has been heard before the Citeh case. To me it looks like the Premier league simply went for the low-hanging fruit.

Everton's (and Forest's) case relates to one Premier League rule that is clearly defined, whereas City have been accused of committing 115 alleged breaches of different rules across nine years, including falsified accounting and a failure to fully disclose financial remunerations to staff. Owing to the complexity of the case, a judgment is not expected until the summer of 2025.

The other factor is that Everton basically put their hands up to being guilty of FFP breaches but felt that they had reasonable excuses for that, which should be taken into account when deciding punishment. City are actively fighting all 115 alleged breaches and see themselves as entirely innocent. It's an entirely different, much more complex scenario. City, of course, should get severe punishment for the breaches and actively attempting to delay a verdict when all is said and done, but because of all of those factors and the sheer legal and financial power that an oil-state holds, the Premier League cannot afford to jump the gun there. One slip up and City run free and FFP falls apart completely.

 

[worthingseagull]

Everton's (and Forest's) case relates to one Premier League rule that is clearly defined, whereas City have been accused of committing 115 alleged breaches of different rules across nine years, including falsified accounting and a failure to fully disclose financial remunerations to staff. Owing to the complexity of the case, a judgment is not expected until the summer of 2025.

The other factor is that Everton basically put their hands up to being guilty of FFP breaches but felt that they had reasonable excuses for that, which should be taken into account when deciding punishment. City are actively fighting all 115 alleged breaches and see themselves as entirely innocent. It's an entirely different, much more complex scenario. City, of course, should get severe punishment for the breaches and actively attempting to delay a verdict when all is said and done, but because of all of those factors and the sheer legal and financial power that an oil-state holds, the Premier League cannot afford to jump the gun there. One slip up and City run free and FFP falls apart completely.

well summarised

 

[Wardy's twin]

Must be the lamest chant in English football.

its refreshingly different to the inane 'football in a library' chant.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

If I were Tony I would be looking at a 6 point deduction for non compliance with FFP and wondering whether it’s much of a deterrent at all. There comes a point when spending big and flouting the rules may actually become worthwhile, particularly if it yields a European place. I am not surprised that Everton have been quoted as being ‘satisfied’ with the decision.

 

[Official Old Man]

Maybe I'm alone in feeling sorry for Everton. Not because they got caught, the FA should throw the book at them with instant relegation, but because they only broke 1 (I believe) rule thus it only took the FA a year to sort it out.
Man City will never have a meaningful points deduction and we all know this.
Same with Chelsea. Even Neville called them the Billion Pound Bottlers. But had they won Sunday the fans would have celebrated, the team would have celebrated, and that day could never be taken away from them.
Worst that will happen to the latter two will be a deduction at season start, reduced by 50% by Christmas and meaning City will still win everything and Chelsea nothing.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Everton's (and Forest's) case relates to one Premier League rule that is clearly defined, whereas City have been accused of committing 115 alleged breaches of different rules across nine years, including falsified accounting and a failure to fully disclose financial remunerations to staff. Owing to the complexity of the case, a judgment is not expected until the summer of 2025.

The other factor is that Everton basically put their hands up to being guilty of FFP breaches but felt that they had reasonable excuses for that, which should be taken into account when deciding punishment. City are actively fighting all 115 alleged breaches and see themselves as entirely innocent. It's an entirely different, much more complex scenario. City, of course, should get severe punishment for the breaches and actively attempting to delay a verdict when all is said and done, but because of all of those factors and the sheer legal and financial power that an oil-state holds, the Premier League cannot afford to jump the gun there. One slip up and City run free and FFP falls apart completely.

You know about this than me but it does on the face of it seem pretty unfair that one club is being punished when there appear to be other (worse?) culprits.

I have said it before building it into one case makes it harder to deal with. Pick the worst offence and see it through now, this season. If not the worst case then pick the easiest one .

 

[hans kraay fan club]

If I were Tony I would be looking at a 6 point deduction for non compliance with FFP and wondering whether it’s much of a deterrent at all. There comes a point when spending big and flouting the rules may actually become worthwhile, particularly if it yields a European place. I am not surprised that Everton have been quoted as being ‘satisfied’ with the decision.

If you break FFP regulations you will likely get banned from UEFA competitions anyway, though. Like Juventus last season.

 

[Official Old Man]

If you break FFP regulations you will likely get banned from UEFA competitions anyway, though. Like Juventus last season.

So Man City aren't in any UEFA competition this year? Innocent until proven, well just innocent.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

So Man City aren't in any UEFA competition this year? Innocent until proven, well just innocent.

If you are FOUND GUILTY of breaking FFP regulations, obviously

 

[Beanstalk]

You know about this than me but it does on the face of it seem pretty unfair that one club is being punished when there appear to be other (worse?) culprits.

I have said it before building it into one case makes it harder to deal with. Pick the worst offence and see it through now, this season. If not the worst case then pick the easiest one .

To be boring (and I completely understand why it seems this isn't the way), one club is not being punished when other (worse - yes) culprits are not. The reality is there are currently quite a few ongoing investigations going on by the PL that are likely to result in breaches. Investigations and sentencing will naturally finish at different times because they are not the same cases or the same issues.

The way I see it is that there are two levels of alleged breaches.

Firstly, you have the Evertons and the Forests of the world. For these clubs, the cards are on the table and without oversimplifying everything, they basically broke FFP because they failed to balance their losses through player sales in the necessary timeframe. This has resulted in them losing more than they agreed to and they've both basically accepted that this happened and been charged for it and are continuing to collaborate with the Premier League as they move towards a punishment. They both believe they have accentuating circumstances that should be taken into account.

Secondly, you have the Man Citys and Chelseas of the world. Man City deny any wrongdoing and both have some serious allegations being thrown at them. Because of the nature of those allegations (not correctly declaring payments in their accounts in Chelsea's case and an endless list for City) we are looking at charges that are a) historic, and b) far more damning than simply overspending.

My opinion is that when cases like City's are concluded, no one will even think of mentioning Everton as a frame of reference. They are almost incomparable in scale and hopefully the punishment will reflect that eventually. Because they're such different cases in size and complexity, they're taking longer to conclude and each case must be treated individually on its own merits. Whilst I understand that right now it seems as if only one club have received punishment, the reality is that only one club have received punishment yet. More will come - this is just the start.

 

[HangletonGull]

Anyone know what that chant was?! It sounded bloody ridiculous, couldn't make out any of it.

All I could make it is , sprit of the blues
Something can’t make out at goodison park
And the whooo bit

 

[Wardy's twin]

Maybe I'm alone in feeling sorry for Everton. Not because they got caught, the FA should throw the book at them with instant relegation, but because they only broke 1 (I believe) rule thus it only took the FA a year to sort it out.
Man City will never have a meaningful points deduction and we all know this.
Same with Chelsea. Even Neville called them the Billion Pound Bottlers. But had they won Sunday the fans would have celebrated, the team would have celebrated, and that day could never be taken away from them.
Worst that will happen to the latter two will be a deduction at season start, reduced by 50% by Christmas and meaning City will still win everything and Chelsea nothing.

I am with you on this not because they don't deserve it but because others are seemingly not being dealt with in a timely manner.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I am with you on this not because they don't deserve it but because others are seemingly not being dealt with in a timely manner.

So, I'm driving along the motorway, at 90 mph, and get flashed by a speed camera. At the same time, a really expensive (sky blue) Ferrari goes tearing past at 110 mph, weaving in and out of lanes. The driver is on his phone, tries to evade chasing police, and gives a false name when eventually stopped.

I get a £60 fixed penalty notice through the letterbox two weeks later, whereas apparently the other guy's case is *more complex* and he's COMPLETELY ESCAPED PUNISHMENT (while he waits for a court date).

Its so unfair, and everyone should feel sorry for me. Or something.

 

[worthingseagull]

To be boring (and I completely understand why it seems this isn't the way), one club is not being punished when other (worse - yes) culprits are not. The reality is there are currently quite a few ongoing investigations going on by the PL that are likely to result in breaches. Investigations and sentencing will naturally finish at different times because they are not the same cases or the same issues.

The way I see it is that there are two levels of alleged breaches.

Firstly, you have the Evertons and the Forests of the world. For these clubs, the cards are on the table and without oversimplifying everything, they basically broke FFP because they failed to balance their losses through player sales in the necessary timeframe. This has resulted in them losing more than they agreed to and they've both basically accepted that this happened and been charged for it and are continuing to collaborate with the Premier League as they move towards a punishment. They both believe they have accentuating circumstances that should be taken into account.

Secondly, you have the Man Citys and Chelseas of the world. Man City deny any wrongdoing and both have some serious allegations being thrown at them. Because of the nature of those allegations (not correctly declaring payments in their accounts in Chelsea's case and an endless list for City) we are looking at charges that are a) historic, and b) far more damning than simply overspending.

My opinion is that when cases like City's are concluded, no one will even think of mentioning Everton as a frame of reference. They are almost incomparable in scale and hopefully the punishment will reflect that eventually. Because they're such different cases in size and complexity, they're taking longer to conclude and each case must be treated individually on its own merits. Whilst I understand that right now it seems as if only one club have received punishment, the reality is that only one club have received punishment yet. More will come - this is just the start.

Exactly, and another way of looking at it for people who still don't understand it is, think of a serial killer murder case where the (obvious to everyone) defendant continues to deny all charges,. These cases take much longer to travel through the justice system and ultimately reach sentencing, whereas maybe a burglar who is caught and admits it, is dealt with much quicker.

 

[Zeberdi]

Everton's (and Forest's) case relates to one Premier League rule that is clearly defined, whereas City have been accused of committing 115 alleged breaches of different rules across nine years, including falsified accounting and a failure to fully disclose financial remunerations to staff. Owing to the complexity of the case, a judgment is not expected until the summer of 2025.

The other factor is that Everton basically put their hands up to being guilty of FFP breaches but felt that they had reasonable excuses for that, which should be taken into account when deciding punishment. City are actively fighting all 115 alleged breaches and see themselves as entirely innocent. It's an entirely different, much more complex scenario. City, of course, should get severe punishment for the breaches and actively attempting to delay a verdict when all is said and done, but because of all of those factors and the sheer legal and financial power that an oil-state holds, the Premier League cannot afford to jump the gun there. One slip up and City run free and FFP falls apart completely.

Excellent post - very clearly put and informative - thank you.