[Football] Euros 2024 - Round of 16 (England vs Slovakia & Spain vs Georgia)

[Milano]

compare and contrast...Italia '90. General consensus was our boys were heros and Bobby Robson was a genius.

However, let's assess the performances

Match 1: v Ireland, score 1-1, performance: rubbish
Match 2: v Netherlands, score 0-0, performance: rubbish
Match 3: v Egypt, score 1-0, performance: rubbish
Match 4: v Belgium, score 1-0, performance: so-so, one moment of brilliance from Platt
Match 5: v Cameroon, score 3-2, performance: totally outplayed but opponents imploded and gave us 2 cheap penalties
Match 6: v Germany, Score 1-1, Performance: Much improved but ultimately not good enough

Everyone regards it as a succesfull tournament but in the main, we were crap

We were excellent v Holland but just couldn’t score. That was the game where Gazza came of age, they couldn’t handle him and Holland were one of the favourites for the tournament.
Cameroon ‘totally outplayed us’ for about 20 minutes. If that game were played today they would have had about 4 players sent off.

For context England were nowhere near favourites for Italy 90, Germany were and we were the better team in the SF. Nothing much was expected of us, we overachieved, that is why Robson got credit.

 

[One Love]

their goal wasn't because of England errors, it was good football from them

Are you talking about both centre backs going for the same ball with neither of them getting near to winning it? Guehi not tracking back with his man? Walker all over the place positionally when the threat arrived?

Seriously look at the goal back.

We were an absolute shambles at the back yesterday.

Did you see the early taking of the free kick when Stones wasn't looking, giving it straight to the Slovakian player when Pickford was out of his goal, leading to the long range effort that should have made it 2-0?

Bearing in mind our biggest problem is transitioning the ball forward if Southgate thinks we can play the same way against Switzerland and get through then that is the definition of insanity.;

 

[Randy McNob]

We were excellent v Holland but just couldn’t score. That was the game where Gazza came of age, they couldn’t handle him and Holland were one of the favourites for the tournament.
Cameroon ‘totally outplayed us’ for about 20 minutes. If that game were played today they would have had about 4 players sent off.

For context England were nowhere near favourites for Italy 90, Germany were and we were the better team in the SF. Nothing much was expected of us, we overachieved, that is why Robson got credit.

Cameroon ran rings round us, we were all over the place, they could have been 4-0 up at one point but their inexperience gifted us 2 cheap penalties and we got out of jail. Spin it a different way if you want but that was the match I was watching

 

[Milano]

Cameroon ran rings round us, we were all over the place, they could have been 4-0 up at one point but their inexperience gifted us 2 cheap penalties and we got out of jail. Spin it a different way if you want but that was the match I was watching

Nah. We went 1-0 up early and thought it would be a breeze. They then proceeded to kick us off the pitch, they were a superior team physically. ‘Gifted us 2 penalties’ Gazza’s through ball to Lineker for 2-2 was world class and he scores without the foul (which now would be a red).
It was 34 years ago so memories fade, I remember we were lucky to equalise, but 4-0 down? Come on.

 

[Randy McNob]

Are you talking about both centre backs going for the same ball with neither of them getting near to winning it? Guehi not tracking back with his man? Walker all over the place positionally when the threat arrived?

Seriously look at the goal back.

We were an absolute shambles at the back yesterday.

Did you see the early taking of the free kick when Stones wasn't looking, giving it straight to the Slovakian player when Pickford was out of his goal, leading to the long range effort that should have made it 2-0?

Bearing in mind our biggest problem is transitioning the ball forward if Southgate thinks we can play the same way against Switzerland and get through then that is the definition of insanity.;

Switzerland couldn't beat Scotland yet we should fear them?
It'll be a totally different game anyway, Switzerland (I doubt) will put everyone behind the ball and frustrate us, they will attack. A more open game would suit us better

 

[Is it PotG?]

Where did you put your money, though?

You, my friend, need some help. Unless you fancy meeting up for a bite to eat and a few cocktails?

 

[Guinness Boy]

their goal wasn't because of England errors, it was good football from them

Sorry, but having played at centre back you're talking bollocks. Both of ours went for the same ball. That's absolutely criminal and ALWAYS leaves a big gap down the middle to exploit.

 

[Eeyore]

 

[Triggaaar]

So Southgate is a better manager than Fabio Capello, your assertion not mine

What are you talking about?

 

[Milano]

Sorry, but having played at centre back you're talking bollocks. Both of ours went for the same ball. That's absolutely criminal and ALWAYS leaves a big gap down the middle to exploit.

It was Stones at fault, I thought last night was his worst England performance, Walker was also well below his usual standards.

 

[Triggaaar]

Sorry, but having played at centre back you're talking bollocks. Both of ours went for the same ball. That's absolutely criminal and ALWAYS leaves a big gap down the middle to exploit.

That must be a windup account

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

For context England were nowhere near favourites for Italy 90, Germany were and we were the better team in the SF. Nothing much was expected of us, we overachieved, that is why Robson got crcredit.

I think the paragraph I have quoted here is really interesting.

I have no idea about your views on Southgate so my post isn't about yours other than using it as a jumping off point

One of the things that really annoys me about the Southgate debate is the lack of respect he gets for his achievements. If an England team containing linekar, Beardsley, waddle, Barnes, Gascoigne, walker, shilton overachieved then what the hell did southgates team in 2018 do? He took a team with Ashley Young at wingback and a midfield containing Henderson, alli and lingaard to the same stage yet he gets nothing but vitriol and derogatory comments.

He appears to be struggling now but it's a shame his achievements get no recognition.

 

[Guinness Boy]

It was Stones at fault, I thought last night was his worst England performance, Walker was also well below his usual standards.

The back four was and is a worry.

Both fullbacks were poor in the first half. Walker massively out of position for their shot across the goal while Trippier's passing was either inaccurate or negative because he ALWAYS turns back in on his favoured foot. Stones at fault for the goal but Guehi had to play on eggshells for most of the game, thanks to his card. Pickford cannot play the correct short ball because he's not asked to do it week in, week out, and was therefore finding Trippier who turned in or passed back.

Now, if Shaw is fit for Saturday we might actually have a better looking balance. Walker Stones Dunk (or Konsa) and Shaw (obvs we'd prefer Dunk at CB) doesn't worry me too much. But if Shaw isn't fit and Trippier's injury is going to keep him out then I can see waistcoat playing TAA Walker Stones Saka to stick with his favourite players.I hope I'm wrong but it's a genuine worry.

 

[Brovion]

compare and contrast...Italia '90. General consensus was our boys were heros and Bobby Robson was a genius.

However, let's assess the performances

Match 1: v Ireland, score 1-1, performance: rubbish
Match 2: v Netherlands, score 0-0, performance: rubbish
Match 3: v Egypt, score 1-0, performance: rubbish
Match 4: v Belgium, score 1-0, performance: so-so, one moment of brilliance from Platt
Match 5: v Cameroon, score 3-2, performance: totally outplayed but opponents imploded and gave us 2 cheap penalties
Match 6: v Germany, Score 1-1, Performance: Much improved but ultimately not good enough

Everyone regards it as a succesfull tournament but in the main, we were crap

Ooooh, have to disagree with your Holland verdict. The overall view at the time was that we played really well against the European champions, a team that had pissed all over us two years previously in the 1988 Euros, and if anything we were a bit unlucky not to win.

However I do accept your overall verdict. 1990 is chiefly remembered because it was the first time we'd got to the semi-final stage of a tournament since 1968. Also it had great songs (World in Motion and Nessun Dorma), and it introduced us to the heartbreak of the penalty shoot-out. The fact our overall performance was a bit patchy is overlooked - as is the fact our fans were still very much in 1980s football hooligan mode.

Also because of that Bobby Robson is remembered as perhaps a better England manager than he was. Under him we never even qualified for the 1984 Euros - and we lost every game in the group stage in 1988 and went home with nul points. And If I wanted to be really harsh I'd say we only got as far as the quarter-finals of the World Cup in 1986 because injury to the 'undroppable' Phil Foden, sorry, Byan Robson, forced him to rejig his team to a more suitable formation. And of course we started that tournament slowly with a defeat to Portugal and a draw against Morocco.

 

[jackanada]

He appears to be struggling now but it's a shame his achievements get no recognition.

Don't they? It always takes a bit of distance before you actually get a balanced perspective.
I will always admire him for changing what was a clearly toxic environment on international duty and his 'club England' approach ended a long period of chronic underachievement.
I think everyone is thankful for that, but many don't rate his previous England tournament performances as any better than par. Thats debatable but debating it isn't to deny his achievement of stopping us being entirely miserable.
Now we may yet win this tournament because we have several good players in theory and are definitely lucky, it's knockout football results entirely trump style. That doesn't mean we haven't been woeful and that Gareth has not shown himself to be a highly inflexible manager. No amount of retconning sending on Tony with a minute to go, desperate players actually moving forwards and a pretty speculative and miss hit pass ending in the net due to one excellent and one spectacular piece of skill changes that.

 

[aftershavedave]

It was a desperately poor effort and we've had a few. World class players and a county league manager with tactics 20 years past their sell-by date. By the time we scored I was so deflated I wanted it to end, it's really hard to celebrate utter rubbish like that

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Comparing Robson at 1990 World Cup

He changed the formation/tactics early on after the Ireland match as it wasn't working/clicking which led to the run something Southgate point blank refuses to do.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Don't they? It always takes a bit of distance before you actually get a balanced perspective.
I will always admire him for changing what was a clearly toxic environment on international duty and his 'club England' approach ended a long period of chronic underachievement.
I think everyone is thankful for that, but many don't rate his previous England tournament performances as any better than par. Thats debatable but debating it isn't to deny his achievement of stopping us being entirely miserable.
Now we may yet win this tournament because we have several good players in theory and are definitely lucky, it's knockout football results entirely trump style. That doesn't mean we haven't been woeful and that Gareth has not shown himself to be a highly inflexible manager. No amount of retconning sending on Tony with a minute to go, desperate players actually moving forwards and a pretty speculative and miss hit pass ending in the net due to one excellent and one spectacular piece of skill changes that.

You know what, I think I agree with everything in your post other than 'everyone is thankful'. I genuinely think there are people that don't want England to succeed and some who are so blinkered that they won't acknowledge anything positive Southgate has done.

But you're right, most people, certainly in time, will probably appreciate at the very least his changing of the toxic culture surrounding the national team. I just went a bit hyperbolic as at times it feels like every man, woman and their dog want to put the boot in.

 

[Nigella's Cream Pie]

We are bookies' favourites to win the trophy, so you England bashers can get good odds on alternatives, fill your boots

 

[Han Solo]

I think the paragraph I have quoted here is really interesting.

I have no idea about your views on Southgate so my post isn't about yours other than using it as a jumping off point

One of the things that really annoys me about the Southgate debate is the lack of respect he gets for his achievements. If an England team containing linekar, Beardsley, waddle, Barnes, Gascoigne, walker, shilton overachieved then what the hell did southgates team in 2018 do? He took a team with Ashley Young at wingback and a midfield containing Henderson, alli and lingaard to the same stage yet he gets nothing but vitriol and derogatory comments.

He appears to be struggling now but it's a shame his achievements get no recognition.

What "overachievement"?

These are the teams you beat in the 2018 World Cup: Panama, Tunisia and Sweden.

At the time, ANY Premier League player would have walked into either of these teams. Lingard (United), Alli (Tottenham) and Henderson (Liverpool) vs Larsson (AIK), Tovionen (Toulouse) and Ekdal (Hamburg)... And don't get me started on the Panama and Tunisia teams... where's the achievement? How did England overachieve in 2018 through beating three of the worst teams in the tournament, drawing against Colombia and losing against Belgium x2 and Croatia?