Europe: In or Out

[5ways]

The CBI speaks for big business so no great surprise they favour maintaining the Status quo as their overriding concern is making a profit.

We agree that our negotiating position is far stronger than Norway but yes the whole EU has more negotiating clout than we do. It is in our and other member states self interest to come to a mutually advantageous agreement.There seems to be a view that the EU will play hardball leading to UK economic collapse which is scaremongering nonsense.

We are the second largest economy in the EU with a vast thriving market with 66+ million consumers. Our European friends and partners know it is as much in their interest as ours to facilitate a smooth grown up settlement especially considering the relative weakness and many underlying economic problems facing the Eurozone and the wider EU .

Lack of democratic accountability and the ongoing migration crisis leading to the numerous societal problems are also big negative in continued unreformed membership.

It's not scaremongering. Yes, we need each other and yes we would come to a mutually beneficial arrangement in the case of Brexit - but it would not be as advantageous as unhindered and free access to the world's largest internal market. By and large, the EU would write the rules and we have to swallow them. We would still be subject to EU regulations, such as working time directives, but not have any ability to amend them at their source. Though I suppose we can ask Germany and the Netherlands really nicely to make them more competitive and business-friendly on our behalf.

Moreover it's not just about a trade agreement with the EU. As the CBI fact-sheet states

"Upon exit, the UK would no longer benefit from any of the EU’s trade deals with the likes of South Africa, Colombia, South Korea, Norway, Mexico – or the possible future deals with the United States and Japan.

and

The UK would be negotiating any new trade deals on the basis of having 3½% of world GDP, rather than as part of a bloc with 23% of world GDP."

In terms of business Brexit is like tying one-hand behind your back and celebrating your ability to do so.

I'm not arguing a lack of democratic accountability or negative consequences of the migration crisis. I am in favour of reformed membership and not in favour of ever-closer union.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Which way would you vote right now?

anyone who wants to see this country regain control of its credibilty will vote out ,limp wristed do gooders will want to carry on seeing this country change beyond all recogniction in years to come so therefore I'm OUT
regards
DR

 

[Lincoln Imp]

OUT. Net migration running at 330,000 not including illegals. Stay in, it is only going to get worse. We have seen nothing yet, trust me.

Nige likes to quote the figures going in one direction only when claiming what the EU 'costs us', and others like to work on the migration stats. Of the 330,000 you quote, fewer than half are from the EU.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

How did we cope before we entered , maybe some on this thread weren't even born
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Nige likes to quote the figures going in one direction only when claiming what the EU 'costs us', and others like to work on the migration stats. Of the 330,000 you quote, fewer than half are from the EU.

55 million a day at what cost
regards
DR

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Nige likes to quote the figures going in one direction only when claiming what the EU 'costs us', and others like to work on the migration stats. Of the 330,000 you quote, fewer than half are from the EU.

I understand they are not all from the EU, this figure counts for people outside the EU as well, I know that, but what people are not getting here is the numbers of people who have arrived in the EU. How long before they are given EU status? More and more people will come to UK not less.

 

[narly101]

Firmly In. Those voting Out need their heads read.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

How did we cope before we entered , maybe some on this thread weren't even born
regards
DR

We coped just fine before any immigration and that's the thing, it wasn't really needed in these numbers.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

It's not scaremongering. Yes, we need each other and yes we would come to a mutually beneficial arrangement in the case of Brexit - but it would not be as advantageous as unhindered and free access to the world's largest internal market. By and large, the EU would write the rules and we have to swallow them. We would still be subject to EU regulations, such as working time directives, but not have any ability to amend them at their source. Though I suppose we can ask Germany and the Netherlands really nicely to make them more competitive and business-friendly on our behalf.

Moreover it's not just about a trade agreement with the EU. As the CBI fact-sheet states

"Upon exit, the UK would no longer benefit from any of the EU’s trade deals with the likes of South Africa, Colombia, South Korea, Norway, Mexico – or the possible future deals with the United States and Japan.

and

The UK would be negotiating any new trade deals on the basis of having 3½% of world GDP, rather than as part of a bloc with 23% of world GDP."

In terms of business Brexit is like tying one-hand behind your back and celebrating your ability to do so.

I'm not arguing a lack of democratic accountability or negative consequences of the migration crisis. I am in favour of reformed membership and not in favour of ever-closer union.

It is scaremongering to suggest there will be a UK economic collapse if we leave.

Overall I don't think our views are that far apart but I have more faith in our ability to negotiate a deal that means we decide what we will sign up to, not get outvoted by qualified majority voting on numerous issues.

The argument that we should fully immerse ourselves in Europe steering it in our direction is delusional in my view. If a majority are heading in one direction 'ever closer union' which they are we can apply a bit of pressure on the brake (as we have been) but steering on to a new course is impossible. Can anyone explain how we are going to negotiate significant directional changes better suited to our view from within when we can't even get minor changes when we threaten to leave!

The not being part of a larger economic block is my largest concern but when balancing off the reduction in this area with membership of a club with little direct democratic responsibility heading in a direction we don't want to go while failing to secure it's borders leading to numerous security,crime and other issues I think that price on balance is to high.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Firmly In. Those voting Out need their heads read.

great, any reason why
regards
DR

 

[Pavilionaire]

In.

We need the EU and the EU needs the UK. However, the EU needs to reappraise the whole borders and immigration issue. The UK might be taken more seriously in the EU if the 'IN' voters win this referendum. Germany cannot run the show alone.

 

[narly101]

great, any reason why
regards
DR

No I was just using the standard NSC response for anyone who disagrees with my opinion by insulting them.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

How did we cope before we entered , maybe some on this thread weren't even born
regards
DR

There was not much border control anywhere before World War 1. I think we coped ok.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I understand they are not all from the EU, this figure counts for people outside the EU as well, I know that, but what people are not getting here is the numbers of people who have arrived in the EU. How long before they are given EU status? More and more people will come to UK not less.

interesting report on breakfast news about rogue landlords and over crowded properties in certain ares of the country , guess what the properties shown all has asian occupants one had 20 people living in it .............yes lets have more of this
regards
DR

 

[alfredmizen]

http://www.theguardian.com/business...eave-uk-brexit-may-bolster-support-to-quit-eu








http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/776f2c82-c031-11e5-9fdb-87b8d15baec2.html#axzz3xyC1uBm4

UBS chairman: Brexit will not undermine the City of London
Britain’s financial centre will still have access to Europe if the UK leaves the EU, according to Axel Weber

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...it-will-not-undermine-the-City-of-London.html

Brexit may benefit City of London in the long run, says top consultancy
Analysts say long-term benefits for UK finance sector from bilateral deals with emerging markets could outweigh short-term costs of leaving EU
http://www.theguardian.com/business...f-london-in-the-long-run-says-top-consultancy

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

There was not much border control anywhere before World War 1. I think we coped ok.[/QUOTE
People walking around in Burkas were living where they belonged in those days
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

UBS chairman: Brexit will not undermine the City of London
Britain’s financial centre will still have access to Europe if the UK leaves the EU, according to Axel Weber

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...it-will-not-undermine-the-City-of-London.htmlcan you really trust a banker mate

Brexit may benefit City of London in the long run, says top consultancy
Analysts say long-term benefits for UK finance sector from bilateral deals with emerging markets could outweigh short-term costs of leaving EU
http://www.theguardian.com/business...f-london-in-the-long-run-says-top-consultancy

can you really trust a banker either way they spin it these days
regards
DR

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Would be nice as a UK citizen if you could just turn up at a heavily-understaffed Gatwick immigration on your return from a couple of days away and not have to stand in line for a stupid amount of time with the rest of the fvcking European Union. Just saying, like.

 

[alfredmizen]

Also someone very senior at UBS was on the Today programme this morning discussing Brexit. He was less than enthusiastic about us coming out of Europe.

Not as senior as the Chairman, I bet ?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...it-will-not-undermine-the-City-of-London.html

 

[alfredmizen]

Would be nice as a UK citizen if you could just turn up at a heavily-understaffed Gatwick immigration on your return from a couple of days away and not have to stand in line for a stupid amount of time with the rest of the fvcking European Union. Just saying, like.

We are a Grumpy box today arent we