Europe: In or Out

[Herr Tubthumper]

The up coming referendum will be interesting to say the least. Tim Collins made a speech on the eve of battle once with the words 'But if you are ferocious in battle remember to be magnanimous in victory.' I hope supporters of both sides remember that after the result. We will all have to accept it, won't we? Going by the cybernats reaction in Scotland to their indy ref it could be social media bitch mayhem afterwards!

As always.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

All in POST #409.

Very impressed by that lot.

They all want us to stay in. Cameron wants us to stay in. A smashing package will be contrived. But there is nothing in there to appease UKIP.

That said, UKIP want out, regardless, so it is the swing voters who are being addressed here. Whether Cameron succeeds will depend on the presentation in the media and the internet. It will also depend on how the likes of Boris decide to 'come out'. My guess, there, is he'll back Cameron. My guess is that the outcome will be a 'yes' vote (stay in) in the referendum.

If I am right, this will put the issue to bed for another few years, but it won't end the sort of scenes we saw in Dover recently. So, because Cameron has sought a pup and will sell a pup, he will solve nothing.

I would like to see a more vigorous 'stay in' stance, but with more vigorous attempts to identify and oppose all the nonsense in the EU (honesty and principle, right or wrong). But that's why I am a crap politician: attacking from the front is the last thing you do in politics, that and being honest and open. The art is to persuade one's opponents by craft and guile. It seems in this respect, Cameron is succeeding. For now. I don't see PPF changing his vote, though. Or me

 

[Two Professors]

That corruption is therefore by countries who are members of the EU and not by the EU itself. That would happen whether or not the EU existed, and indeed exists in countries that have never been members.

By the way, I'm not stating as fact that there is no corruption within the corridors of power within the EU, but that there's very little evidence to back up such an assertion.

Bet you still believe in the tooth fairy.The EU financial accounts for the last 20 years have never had a clean bill of health from the auditors,and are swept under the carpet to avoid proper investigation every year.More corrupt than even FIFA!

 

[Barry Izbak]

For the first time, I've switched.
I'm out
(which makes the poll inaccurate by one t least)

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

i think we all know how you will vote regardless of what 'deal' cameron gets.

pathetic
regards
DR

 

[melias shoes]

Dodgy Dave has done the unexpected and come back with an improbable good deal for the UK

He hasn't.

 

[melias shoes]

For the first time, I've switched.
I'm out
(which makes the poll inaccurate by one t least)

 

[Lincoln Imp]

For the first time, I've switched.
I'm out
(which makes the poll inaccurate by one t least)

Just out of interest, what has made you switch? Disappointment with Dave's deal, lucid arguments on here, worries about your job being taken over by Slovenians?

 

[GT49er]

Are these all more of your FACTS?

Well, this statement:

People have already nailed their colours to the mast on NSC and the undecideds will probably break more for staying in as these momentous, fundamental, clearly defined changes will be presented as the best deal ever by unscrupulous, manipulative so and so's! (+project fear)

.....is fact, at least the "these momentous, fundamental, clearly defined changes will be presented as the best deal ever by unscrupulous, manipulative so and so's! (+project fear)" part of it is.
It's incontrovertible - smarmy Dave will be bigging it up as the biggest thing since Chamberlain's piece of paper at Munich - sorry, I meant to say sliced bread. That the undecided will weakly and meekly vote for the status quo is, it is true, the poster's opinion, but sadly I fear it will be true.

 

[Barry Izbak]

Just out of interest, what has made you switch? Disappointment with Dave's deal, lucid arguments on here, worries about your job being taken over by Slovenians?

Lucid arguments on here.!?!?!?

No, seriously.... Dave said he was going to negotiate for a better deal. He set off with a pitiful wish list and appears not even to have got half of it.

Is that it Dave?

Boris on LBC this morning said what we need is ability to say "No" ourselves when we don't like a law, not to need to find 15 other countries to agree with us.

So sorry but I'm out

 

[pastafarian]

there is nothing being proposed that comes anywhere close to even being considered to be something resembling a good deal

 

[Soulman]

there is nothing being proposed that comes anywhere close to even being considered to be something resembling a good deal

View attachment 72049

"New" deals, yeah right. Let's get out, as the Germans would say "Vorsprung durch Brexit"

 

[RyFish]

Bet you still believe in the tooth fairy.

Good insult.

The EU financial accounts for the last 20 years have never had a clean bill of health from the auditors,and are swept under the carpet to avoid proper investigation every year.More corrupt than even FIFA!

You might want to read this, even though it might not fit with your personal narrative. Fraud perpetrated by some individual claimants, certainly, but no suggestion of corruption by the EU.

https://fullfact.org/europe/has-eu-budget-been-rejected-auditors-past-18-years/

 

[glasfryn]

whats that I smell .....................ah yes bullshit followed by smoke and mirrors


OUT

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

whats that I smell .....................ah yes bullshit followed by smoke and mirrors


OUT

Ha ha, soooooooooo funny.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Ha ha, soooooooooo funny.

You spent the whole election banging on about how untrustworthy Cameron and the Tories are yet now you trust them ? Bizarre.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You spent the whole election banging on about how untrustworthy Cameron and the Tories are yet now you trust them ? Bizarre.

I trust the EU, not Cameron.

 

[BigGully]

I trust the EU, not Cameron.

So by default, our elected Prime Minister is out of kilter with the EU, thats the problem really it kind of invalidates our democracy.

 

[GT49er]

I trust the EU, not Cameron.

So you'll vote against any changes instigated by Cameron, who you don't trust, to your precious union, which you do trust as it stands?

Excellent!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

So you'll vote against any changes instigated by Cameron, who you don't trust, to your precious union, which you do trust as it stands?

Excellent!

Whatever