Europe again. Unaccountable and undemocratic. This sums it up.

[Murray 17]

In the UK, we also need a sensible house-building plan which will lead to a gradual reduction in the housing pressures and house prices. This will impact positively for the younger generation, who are getting royally screwed currently.

Unfortunately, with nearly 800 people arriving on our shores every day last year, it's not possible to have a housing plan that will even touch the surface of what is needed.

 

[cunning fergus]

Blimey, you're a one man Godwin's Law aren't you? But yeah, Europe, don't think we don't know that your Human Rights court is really a gas chamber, We're on to you.

I see, this "we" you speak of is it the political continent of Europe you think you are representing or is it more like you and your imaginary best mate Bernard?

Either way you are evidently as mad as a March hare.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

it was seeded with funds from all countries, to give some assets with which to back the funds raised. so you'r right the money is raised in the market, but everyone in the EU had to put into the hat first.

A pass from me on the initial seeding (I genuinely have no idea) but aren't the funds raised secured against the EU budget? It seems to me that EFSM was designed for situations requiring an immediate response (sticking plaster) for use by the Commission as a temporary fix prior to other sources of support (eg those requiring national approvals) coming on stream. If the current situation with Greece fits this criteria and is consistent with rules of the EFSM then I personally don't see the big deal.

 

[beorhthelm]

It seems to me that EFSM was designed for situations requiring an immediate response (sticking plaster) for use by the Commission as a temporary fix prior to other sources of support (eg those requiring national approvals) coming on stream

spot on with the design as a response, because the ECB never had any fund raising power, presumably because all the countries in the Euro would never over spend or otherwise require rescuing (yeah... but then the whole EU project is idealistic). it was empowered to raise money for the European Commission to react to impeding financial collapses, but it was tempoary and replaced by ESM. the big deal would be going back on the treaty that agreed the ESM.

i'm not entirely sure its a serious proposition, because using it implies the remedies available under ESM and other methods of the ECB are not sufficient.

 

[Hampster Gull]

There was always going to be an agreement. not sure waht the fuss is

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

There was always going to be an agreement. not sure waht the fuss is

Quite

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Unfortunately, with nearly 800 people arriving on our shores every day last year, it's not possible to have a housing plan that will even touch the surface of what is needed.

Quite.
We have to build a new house every 7 minutes for the next 20 years just to keep pace with demand. Yet it continues on and on and all we hear is that the country needs this influx of labour. Never mind that we are an island with finite resources. Never mind that 95% of the country is undeveloped. Its the other 5% thats the bloody problem. Every scrap of land is being built on, including green belt. A pub closes....a block of flats or a local supermarket pops up. New developments are sold out in hours and yet the younger generation are finding it harder and harder to get on the property ladder.
To allow our population level to rise unabated is the scandalous legacy of years of self-centred politics but sadly self-interest is everywhere and too many seem unbothered by it. Future generations will pay the price.

 

[Chicken Run]

Lets be honest for one moment about the upcoming in/out referendum, many in here will have you believe the British Electorate can't be trusted after the "surprise " Tory GE win in the Spring. I have a sneaky suspicion that those pesky voters will be out in force again on this matter.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Quite.
We have to build a new house every 7 minutes for the next 20 years just to keep pace with demand. Yet it continues on and on and all we hear is that the country needs this influx of labour. Never mind that we are an island with finite resources. Never mind that 95% of the country is undeveloped. Its the other 5% thats the bloody problem. Every scrap of land is being built on, including green belt. A pub closes....a block of flats or a local supermarket pops up. New developments are sold out in hours and yet the younger generation are finding it harder and harder to get on the property ladder.
To allow our population level to rise unabated is the scandalous legacy of years of self-centred politics but sadly self-interest is everywhere and too many seem unbothered by it. Future generations will pay the price.

Very, very well said sir!

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I hope, if there is an out vote, that the government do the sensible thing and allow those of us who were born in and want to be in europe the freedom to leave and remain european.

Why on earth would you not be allowed to leave ?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Why on earth would you not be allowed to leave ?

Not necessarily leave, but be allowed an EU passport. Anti-EU folk talk heavily about being stripped of identity because of Brussels. So you can surely understand Plooks feelings?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Not necessarily leave, but be allowed an EU passport. Anti-EU folk talk heavily about being stripped of identity because of Brussels. So you can surely understand Plooks feelings?

He asked about leaving ... nothing to do with passports. Why would the UK continue to issue EU passports if we weren't a member ? EU passports were never agree by the British voters - they only got a say on the common market.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

He asked about leaving ... nothing to do with passports. Why would the UK continue to issue EU passports if we weren't a member ? EU passports were never agree by the British voters - they only got a say on the common market.

Quite, hence I wrote "Not necessarily leave". I was putting my take onto his thoughts.

But I have an EU passport. And you want to strip me and Plooks of our identity, literally. I don't care who I get the passport from but I prefer an EU passport thanks.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

So now we might have to help in bailing out Greece, that's on top of the 55 million pounds a day we already pay, what a fu*king con this whole EU is and for what?
F&*k off there are more important things this money could be spent on in THIS COUNTRY.

 

[cunning fergus]

Quite, hence I wrote "Not necessarily leave". I was putting my take onto his thoughts.

But I have an EU passport. And you want to strip me and Plooks of our identity, literally. I don't care who I get the passport from but I prefer an EU passport thanks.

To have an EU passport as you describe you evidently confer the apparatus of statehood on the EU......that's your right, good for you.

However, in this EU utopia of yours, can you explain to the sceptics of your vision, who is your head of state and how did you elect him/her?

It's important to weed out some of the fruits of the forest on these discussions...........no offence.

 

[Trufflehound]

who is your head of state and how did you elect him/her?

.

No one elected the UK's head of state either. She inherited it.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

I hope, if there is an out vote, that the government do the sensible thing and allow those of us who were born in and want to be in europe the freedom to leave and remain european.

I am firstly English and secondly British. I do not think of myself as European. To me, we are an individual island race and always have been. We have never had anything in common with the large land mass and interlocking countries to our East. At different times, we have fought all of them ( some, over and over again ) bar Portugal. History shows that we are proud of our independence, our individual strength and our heritage.
There have been two great imperialist and colonising powers in history. The Romans and the British. The Germans have yearned for centuries to do the same and have tried twice, militarily, to expand. Twice, our greatest ally ( America ) have helped us to defeat this powerful and dangerous country. At the end of the Second World War, when the Third Reich lay in ruins, the Germans vowed to regroup and dominate again, but this time, economically.
They have succeeded. They dominate this group of disparate countries and do so to their economic advantage. They have become a superpower. They call all the shots. It is in their interest to have European union. They want us in with them, so they can try and control what we do. They respect and fear our historical alliance with the USA and want us under their wing.
It has been imbued in us in recent years that we are European. We have been brainwashed by politicians and self-seeking bureacrats that we are all in it together. Why can't we be proud to be English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish or British and have the strength and confidence to stand alone. We are big boys now. We don't need to be wet-nursed by a nanny super-state. We should have the self-confidence to recognise our proper identity.

 

[jgmcdee]

However, in this EU utopia of yours, can you explain to the sceptics of your vision, who is your head of state and how did you elect him/her?

I have never understood why it is that there is a blindness when talking about the UK being democratic and Europe not.

The president of the EU is elected by MEPs.
The MEPs are elected by the people.

The leader of the conservative party is elected by MPs and peers.
The MPs are elected by the people.
The peers are not.

Which is more democratic?

 

[Trufflehound]

I am firstly English and secondly British. I do not think of myself as European. To me, we are an individual island race and always have been. We have never had anything in common with the large land mass and interlocking countries to our East. .

Where did the Celts, the Romans, the Jutes, the Angles, the Saxons, the Vikings, the Normans, and all the other tribes that have invaded the British isles and still make up the vast bulk of the population today come from then, if not Europe?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

It's really not that difficult. We want to trade with Europe, be part of Europe but we don't want to be governed by Europe. That seems fair to me and a lot of other people. Seems bloody pointless paying out 55 millions pounds a day, because I really don't know what we get out of this deal.