EU to charge Britain more money due to success of economy....

[User removed 4]

That may be true Soulman but it is recognised that the global economic meltdown began in 2008 and Gordon Brown, poor PM as he was, was the first world leader who recognised the gravity of the situation and pulled Obama and all the others together in London to agree to save the banks. It's also very true that the Tories, then in opposition, not only backed labours spending plans, even promising MORE tax cuts and spending on health and education than Labour right up til the night before Lehmanns went tits up.

Labour did spend too much money and were not prepared for the crash...but the crash would have happened, and just as badly, if George and Dave had been holding the parcel when the music stopped.

Absolute rubbish BH, it was Mervyn King , the governor of the bank of England who recognised , and coordinated the response to the crisis, gordon brown just did as he was told, he had NOTHING to do with formulating any of the policy .

 

[Soulman]

That may be true Soulman but it is recognised that the global economic meltdown began in 2008 and Gordon Brown, poor PM as he was, was the first world leader who recognised the gravity of the situation and pulled Obama and all the others together in London to agree to save the banks. It's also very true that the Tories, then in opposition, not only backed labours spending plans, even promising MORE tax cuts and spending on health and education than Labour right up til the night before Lehmanns went tits up.

Labour did spend too much money and were not prepared for the crash...but the crash would have happened, and just as badly, if George and Dave had been holding the parcel when the music stopped.

Whatever. Labour were in charge 1997 - 2010, the recession started in 2007, the country was left in massive debt, Bliar went into a war that made the banks billions, then as a thank you was awarded a position on JP Morgan bank to the tune of 2m a year when he retired. His slot gob of a wife (barrister) made loads out of cases opposing her husbands decisions. Meanwhile Gordon McBroon and his Scottish Raj, Darling, Reid, Gorbals Mick etc moved many industries from England to Scotland, propped up Scottish Banks RBS, and McBroons local constituency bank, Clydesdale Bank and generally set the Jocks up for independence.
Labour admitted they had cocked up on immigration.....yet still the gullible English voters have them well up in the polls.....amazing really imo.

 

[Soulman]

Absolute rubbish BH, it was Mervyn King , the governor of the bank of England who recognised , and coordinated the response to the crisis, gordon brown just did as he was told, he had NOTHING to do with formulating any of the policy .

Yep, don't let the facts get in the way of the fantasy eh......lol

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

This is Labour's fault again, if they hadn't caused a global recession which the Tories than turned in to a booming economy, this wouldn't have happened. Another mess for Gideon and Dave to sort out.

Apparently Gideon is called "the oik" by Dave and chums because he only went to St. Paul's rather than Eton or Harrow.

I'm not a Labour apologist but it is always worth pointing out that, whatever Labour were doing, the Tories would have done more of the same but additionally cut taxes and regulation for the city still further.

It's a constant source of amazement to me that Labour don't stick to their guns more on this point...Balls is supposedly this Rottweiler who is feared by the Tories but just comes across as a mad-looking dickhead and Miliband ways looks to me like he's about to burst into tears whenever Cameron lays into him.

Imagine what Alaistair Campbell would have done to the posh boys...he'd have labour sticking the boot in rather than flapping about like a bunch of spineless gibbers.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Absolute rubbish BH, it was Mervyn King , the governor of the bank of England who recognised , and coordinated the response to the crisis, gordon brown just did as he was told, he had NOTHING to do with formulating any of the policy .

Maybe so but,whatever he told Brown to do, he did it quicker than anyone else. Also, as former chancellor, I'm sure Brown was fully aware of the ramifications if all of the banks ran out of money.

Does anyone dispute the fact that the Tories had committed to mirror labours spending but were offering tax cuts too? I don't expect anyone in the "labours economic mess" camp to fess to that btw...but it's true.

If George is such a hotshot why wasn't he on Newsnight all the way through 2007 saying "we're about to fall off a fiscal cliff...run, save yourselves" Riddle me that.

 

[Kevlar]

You didn't answer my question, what is your source that a recession runs from GDP peak to peak? This is nonsense.

https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=definition+of+recession

1.a period of temporary economic decline during which trade and industrial activity are reduced, generally identified by a fall in GDP in two successive quarters.

I thought the argument was self evident.
if you exit recession with one quarter of growth
then double dip recessions are impossible
you would simply have two recessions
your quote relates to what defines entering a recession
not what defines exiting a recession
just google when is a recession over

 

[beorhthelm]

I thought the argument was self evident.
if you exit recession with one quarter of growth
then double dip recessions are impossible
you would simply have two recessions
your quote relates to what defines entering a recession
not what defines exiting a recession
just google when is a recession over

your argument is not self evident, it is wrong, like your daft short sentances. a recession does end with a quater of positive growth. try to learn something about subject, maybe reading google as you adivse others to do.

 

[Kevlar]

what is a double dip recession?

 

[beorhthelm]

what is a double dip recession?

when an economy returns to negative growth after a short period of positive growth. technically there is a formal definition, its just a description of two seperate recessions in quick succession.

 

[Kevlar]

there is no consensus on these definitions
but it is very common to understand booms and recessions
in the way I described.
it does not change the substantive point
that the coalition has overseen the longest period
taken to return to a previous high.
although it is hard to make comparison with the 19 th century
but some would say maybe the so called long depression
was comparable
the long recession normally described between 1873-1879
no that was not 6 years of continuous falling GDP

 

[Kevlar]

when an economy returns to negative growth after a short period of positive growth. technically there is a formal definition, its just a description of two seperate recessions in quick succession.

if you want a commonly used source try Wikipedia
the entry on The Great Depression
describes the length of the Great Depression in the USA
in the same terms as I did
but I would accept not all economists agree

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Where's Gordon Brown when you want him ?

He's taking a well earned break from having saved the UK.

 

[Camicus]

A couple of points. The UK government has known about this for 10 months. If they hadn't cooked the books they wouldn't have been caught out. As for immigration who is going to tell the 5m British Living in the eu they no longer have the right to live there.

 

[beorhthelm]

A couple of points. The UK government has known about this for 10 months. If they hadn't cooked the books they wouldn't have been caught out.

a new myth taking hold i see. they couldnt have known 10 mths ago what the GDP numbers where for UK or other countries to base the calulation on, only that a calculation was expected.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

A couple of points. The UK government has known about this for 10 months. If they hadn't cooked the books they wouldn't have been caught out. As for immigration who is going to tell the 5m British Living in the eu they no longer have the right to live there.

You can't come on here with rational thoughts like this - you will be telling us next that the main problems for the UK are not immigration or the EU but housing and quality jobs. I mean the only reason young people can't buy or rent houses is all these foreign immigrants coming over here taking all the benefits, jobs and houses. Its got nothing to do with crap jobs/low wages and housing stock being bought up by middle-aged or old people buying up houses to rent out to ensure they have a lush retirement.

I mean what sort of people do you think Ukip or conservatives are?

 

[Chicken Runner61]

a new myth taking hold i see. they couldnt have known 10 mths ago what the GDP numbers where for UK or other countries to base the calulation on, only that a calculation was expected.

The treasury knew in May that the upward revisions were going to be a problem - thats five months ago, they would have put the revisions in months before that - Aren't the treasury and economic advisors supposed to be aware of this sort of thing, most people know what happens when their last estimated meter reading is much lower than what they have used.

 

[Buzzer]

Whilst I agree with your argument - it does depend if the family received the benefits fraudulently. In Greeces case they have a massive black market economy, so big sales of cash registers and till receipts went through the roof when they realised they now had to submit receipts.

Whats a Greek Urn ? depends what he decides to put on his tax return !

And we are not much better, If Cameron agreed to the formula and then decided to include prositution and other dark activities on the return how can we complain if the calculation now is too high?

If it wasn't for Ukip he wouldn't have said a thing as the figures make our economy look bigger , he's only going to add it to the deficit anyway - this is all for show

I have a few issue with this. Firstly, no-one's received any money fraudulently. Calculating GDP and including the black economy as part of that is not the same as saying that Greece received any money from the EU fraudulently. Everything has been above board so to speak with the payments to Greece - what's changed is the way it is calculated.

Secondly, and this is a huge point - the whole thing about the black economy is that no-one pays tax on it so the Government don't receive the benefit. Greece may have a huge black economy but they don't see a penny of that money, criminals don't tend to declare and pay tax on illegal earnings. It seems very unfair to surcharge based in part on money a country never receives. Lastly, the very nature of the black economy is that at best it's a guestimate. There's absolutely no way that the the Greek equivalent of the ONS or the EU can be sure what the real amount is. A quarter of a billion demand sprung overnight and immediate payment demanded based on guesses does not appear to me at least of being a reasonable way of running a department. And I can't be the only one to question the morality of a surcharge being applied because a country has 'benefited' from drugs, prostitution and human trafficking?

And further to Herr Tubthumper's comments about how clueless everybody is, this BBC article makes for very interesting reading and lays the blame squarely at the door of EU Commission incompetence. Italy, Holland and Britain have all said this has come as a complete surprise and with no consultation nor warning.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-eu-29776473

Matteo Renzi the Italian Prime Minister said:

"We only found out about Italy's extra money towards the EU budget last night"....He demanded "more transparency and clarity", saying "we don't come here to receive lectures and admonishments"..."When I say that bureaucracy risks destroying Europe, I say it because I think that this is the biggest risk for EU citizens."


​What silly little Englanders/Dutch/Greeks/Italians they all are, eh?

 

[beorhthelm]

The treasury knew in May that the upward revisions were going to be a problem ...

but nothing specific. if GDP numbers had been a decimimal lower, or France and Germany's a shade higher, this wouldnt have come in so high for us and been batted away. its odd how all the countries being asked to cough up are saying its unexpected, yet some how, some people want to portray that only the UK is complaining.

 

[Buzzer]

I mean what sort of people do you think Ukip or conservatives are?

Any chance you can play the ball and not the man? I thought arrogant ridiculing of eurosceptics had been shown to be counter-productive in the last Euro elections so why carry on with the insults?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The treasury knew in May that the upward revisions were going to be a problem - thats five months ago, they would have put the revisions in months before that - Aren't the treasury and economic advisors supposed to be aware of this sort of thing, most people know what happens when their last estimated meter reading is much lower than what they have used.

Quite.