EU and AstraZeneca

[Easy 10]

Not fake news Notters.

You realise that the EU haven't actually approved the Astrazeneca Vaccine yet? Allegedly they will 'at the end of January...'

The vaccine that has (in part) led to 6 million + vaccinations taking place in the UK

Like it or not, the UK Govt got this right (amongst not much else with the exception of furlough) by getting in early on the ordering of vaccines. They have also ordered millions of other vaccines still not yet approved.

The EU has f***ed this up big time and is now throwing their toys out - try speaking as I do every day to Dutch, Belgians, French, Italians and Germans - they cannot believe how incompetent the EU policy has been on Vaccines.

Spot on.

And the result is that the UK have now (so far) vaccinated nearly 11% of its targeted population (the target is apparently 70% by the summer, and the numbers will accelerate as new vaccine centres continue to open up) - whereas the EU so far has only managed 2%.

You don't want to see shortages of this vaccine anywhere, but this IS a problem of the EU's own making.

 

[Mackenzie]

Thank you and respect to the 52% for every British life that will be saved over the coming months.

Yep fair play, us being able to negotiate our own deal has really helped.

Thank you Boris and Brexit.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Well yes, as we would have both - as some EU countries have, such as Hungary I believe.

Please do correct me if I'm wrong though.

The Hungary situation is an outlier. They have cosied up to the Russians for their vaccine (interesting in regard to Russian testing methods which are far less rigorous than Western). The EU is unhappy with this stance according to the Sunday Times but Hungary have gone it alone as they are very unhappy with the EU's response. Hungary have also approved the Oxford vaccine ahead of the EU.

Of course, had we still been in the EU I guess you are right in that we could have (almost) gone it alone and ordered vaccines independently.

But just as our govt is open to criticism for certain aspects of its response to the pandemic, so is the EU in this case.

 

[clapham_gull]

For things to get back to normal it's entirely within our own interests that the EU sort their shit out.

We can't on holiday and they can't bring their business here.

This vaccine "nationalism" is small-minded on both sides. It's actually in our wider interest to ramp up production here and see where we can help up.

I suspect we wlll. The Government can add it to their list of small victories.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

No, not having that. Brexit had zero impact on us being able to order a load of vaccines, despite the 8 likes on this comment. More fake news. Still waiting for Brexit benefits.

Stated today on the news the government could have stayed with the EU and their program for the vaccine but due to us leaving the EU decided to go it alone. Italy and Spain were going to go alone but were persuaded to stay. It is an indirect benefit.

 

[Sorrel]

Ordering the vaccines early was a gamble and it could have been that what now appears like a wise move could easily have ended up looking foolish. No doubt if that had happened we would be hearing how terrible the government were for doing so.

It was definitely a benefit for the UK to have an independent mindset here, even if it could have done this as part of the EU: none of the other countries there did - and some, as mentioned above, wanted to but were persuaded not to.

The EU did some things right, maybe got this bit wrong. The problem is if they start demanding control of vaccine exports - because those manufactured in the EU go to many more places than Britain, so unless they intend purely to single out the UK (which will not go down well as a good trade partner), their strategy will cause problems in many places.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

All but one (?) EU member state delegated vaccine procurement to the Commission instead of acting independently because one of the major reasons for being a member is to act collectively because it supposedly gets better results .... not in this case. The EU failed its members, they should take responsibility.

 

[peterward]

Well yes, as we would have both - as some EU countries have, such as Hungary I believe.

Please do correct me if I'm wrong though.

Notters, I respect you're a remainer, I know the arguments, I was and still am a staunch leaver for many reasons.

But this tribalism shouldn't blind leavers to admit when the EU do something right, just as much as it shouldnt for a remainer to admit, you know what Britain got this spot on, on this occasion the EU f***ed it up. Which is the truth.

Hungary, lead by a renegade populist have ordered the Russian vaccine much to the annoyance of the EU.

Read Robert Pestons twitter today, someone who almost certainly comes across as normally sympathetic to the EU, he openly writes to the effect that this was an EU cock up, as they try and blame anyone but themselves.

We signed our deal with AZ in May precisely because this scale has never been required before, to enable the time to iron out manufacturing issues and there were many, that were ironed out because we acted early.

Just after we signed, France, Germany, Holland and another (whom ive forgotten) did have the foresight and also tried to do the same with their own mini deal. The EU stopped them and said they must have an all inclusive 27 nation agreement, which took months as the usual dithering in decision making, lost them and AZ months to iron out the problems in the EU AZ manufacturing facilities that are in Holland and Belgium, non of our vaccine comes from there and none of theirs was ever scheduled to come from our plant in Wrexham.

So now the dithering and delay results in AZ not being to meet its (in their CEO words) "we will do our best to deliver" obligation. They're now threatening an export ban on Pfizer made exclusively in Belgium and are now demanding we give them supplies made in Wrexham that are contracted at 2 million per week, for UK citizens.

Theyve got it badly wrong and we would be in the exact same position as France and Germany who tried to sign early but were blocked by the EU if we were still in........ Remainer or Leaver, that's a fact.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55822602

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

For things to get for normal it's entirely within our own interests that the EU sort their shit out.

We can't on holiday and they can't bring their business here.

This vaccine "nationalism" is small-minded on both sides.

I don’t think there is vaccine nationalism on either side. This is all about procurement effectiveness. It is perfectly reasonable to point out we wouldn’t have our successful vaccination programme were we part of the EU strategy. Agreed the EU needs to sort itself out and I would add it needs to stop playing politics.

 

[Doonhamer7]

I think the point is that if we were still in the EU we would be subject to their vaccination procurement, approval and distribution strategy ie membership had everything to do with our ability to sign contracts in a timely manner. The EU hasn’t actually approved use of the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine as yet, although it is apparently imminent.

Not true, each country is able to do their own thing and we were still in the EU when decision was made, big thing was we actually placed our order early - feels like one of the few things the govt. got right

 

[Notters]

I think you may be wrong. Hungary has circumvented the EU strategy by ordering from Russia and the UK but without approval from the EU. The ability to ignore the will of the 27 member states and the commission is hardly a strong argument for membership. If all states did that there wouldn’t be much point to the organization.

Spot on.

And the result is that the UK have now (so far) vaccinated nearly 11% of its targeted population (the target is apparently 70% by the summer, and the numbers will accelerate as new vaccine centres continue to open up) - whereas the EU so far has only managed 2%.

You don't want to see shortages of this vaccine anywhere, but this IS a problem of the EU's own making.

I'm not arguing that the EU hasn't cocked up here. But that it wouldn't have affected the UK

The MHRA regulates medicines in the UK and always has done.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

No, not having that. Brexit had zero impact on us being able to order a load of vaccines, despite the 8 likes on this comment. More fake news. Still waiting for Brexit benefits.

With out the wish to turn this into another Brexit thread - all EU members need the EU's medicine agency ( or whatever it's called ) to approve the vaccine - this would have been the case for the UK if we were still in the EU. They can pre-order ( which they didn't ) but can't use it until approval .... which the EU STILL hasn't done.

 

[Baker lite]

Anyone genuinely surprised by their attitude?

Nope..

 

[vegster]

For things to get for normal it's entirely within our own interests that the EU sort their shit out.

We can't on holiday and they can't bring their business here.

This vaccine "nationalism" is small-minded on both sides. It's actually in our wider interest to ramp up production here and see where we can help up.

I suspect we wlll. The Government can add to their list of small victories.

It was pretty obvious that any vaccine produced was going to be quickly involved in a tug-of-war between competing factions, be it locally, nationally or internationally. We face a frightening and dangerous disease and a vaccine is THE ONLY way out and is going to be fought over like a pack of Hyena's over a Wildebeest.

There will be winners and losers, we lost when it came to the death toll, we won because of our good fortune in buying up vaccine options in advance of their efficacy and their licensing. Lots of money had been spaffed by this government across a range of endeavours, thankfully the vaccine procurement paid off.
Johnson is only to happy to trumpet the UK's Vaccination programme as being" World Beating " although we are not allowed to compare case numbers, hospitalisations and fatalities. I too would like to see vaccine production ramped up, I was under the impression that the Oxford Vaccine could be produced in prodigious numbers and was cheap to produce....we should throw absolutely everything in to its manufacture and export.

 

[clapham_gull]

I don’t think there is vaccine nationalism on either side. This is all about procurement effectiveness. It is perfectly reasonable to point out we wouldn’t have our successful vaccination programme were we part of the EU strategy. Agreed the EU needs to sort itself out and I would add it needs to stop playing politics.

Our Government has been guilty on a number of occasions of talking about the pandemic within a Brexit context.

There was quite a bit of Hancock bullshit last year about we got the vaccines approved quicker because we were leaving the EU. Even No 10 refused to back up his claims because it wasn't true.

Vaccine nationalism in a nutshell.

We are now seeing similar from the EU. The press in Germany and the UK have been just as bad.

My point clearly was - it needs to stop and both sides need to work together. I'd kinda like to think about leaving the country before the end of the year.

 

[beorhthelm]

sad mess. the Repubblica story page one covers better than any post the cause of the problems. not mentioned is that the EU commission stepped in and stopped a contract negotiations within industry, insisted it be conducted by them, through their protocol. 3 month delays caused and no net benefit to the contract. now they want to throw mud at AZ to cover their mess, despite this all in the public domain now, EU commissioner and various health ministers still maintaining its all AZ fault (brushing over same problems with Pfizer).

 

[Is it PotG?]

It was pretty obvious that any vaccine produced was going to be quickly involved in a tug-of-war between competing factions, be it locally, nationally or internationally. We face a frightening and dangerous disease and a vaccine is THE ONLY way out and is going to be fought over like a pack of Hyena's over a Wildebeest.

There will be winners and losers, we lost when it came to the death toll, we won because of our good fortune in buying up vaccine options in advance of their efficacy and their licensing. Lots of money had been spaffed by this government across a range of endeavours, thankfully the vaccine procurement paid off.
Johnson is only to happy to trumpet the UK's Vaccination programme as being" World Beating " although we are not allowed to compare case numbers, hospitalisations and fatalities. I too would like to see vaccine production ramped up, I was under the impression that the Oxford Vaccine could be produced in prodigious numbers and was cheap to produce....we should throw absolutely everything in to its manufacture and export.

I agree with you, thank goodness we're out of that bureaucratic mess of an organisation.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Not true, each country is able to do their own thing and we were still in the EU when decision was made, big thing was we actually placed our order early - feels like one of the few things the govt. got right

We knew we were leaving by agreeing to be in the EU program we would have to forego our right to choose, if we had agreed to go along with it. Not only would we have had little of the vaccines yet we wouldn't have been in any position to do something about it and as we know Germany and France are only in it for themselves, so we would have been screwed. As the spokeswomen for the EU said we don't do queues and don't understand waiting your turn. We have it as a pass time only this time we got to the front of the queue.

The timeline meant we made the decision early and are now benefiting. No matter what Notters tries to say, he is wrong.

 

[Bodian]

We could have approved and ordered vaccine independently, even if we had still been in the EU. So, whilst the EU as a bloc haven't done very well - it is not because we have left the EU that we were ahead of the game.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/covid-vaccine-decisions-brexit

 

[clapham_gull]

With out the wish to turn this into another Brexit thread - all EU members need the EU's medicine agency ( or whatever it's called ) to approve the vaccine - this would have been the case for the UK if we were still in the EU. They can pre-order ( which they didn't ) but can't use it until approval .... which the EU STILL hasn't done.

The vaccines were approved in the UK whilst we were still in the transition period utilising EU leglisation.

The UK’s Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Authority clarified Hancock lies.

“We have been able to authorise the supply of this vaccine using provisions under European law, which exist until 1 January,” said June Raine, the MHRA’s chief executive.

As the UK was leaving soon, it made perfect sense to start using its own authority for emergency usage of course and the EU have lagged behind.

But to suggest we were only able to go quicker because of Brexit is bollocks.