EU and AstraZeneca

[vegster]

Apart from the fact SSP M/P Leave is not and has not been set by the EU or even protected by.

I'm not going to derail this thread beyond pointing out that a, I said Sick Pay rather than SSP, and b, Workers Rights, Who do you genuinely think sets the higher standards, the EU or a Tory government ?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Remember that quote in a few years time when you are working a 50 hour week, have no Sick Pay or Maternity/Paternity Leave and the only benefit you have is cheaper tampons.

This thread is about vaccine procurement and the advantages/disadvantages of going it alone versus being a part of a 27 country strategy. It would be nice if we could keep it out of the Bear Pit.

 

[vegster]

This thread is about vaccine procurement and the advantages/disadvantages of going it alone versus being a part of a 27 country strategy. It would be nice if we could keep it out of the Bear Pit.

Read my post above then.

 

[rigton70]

Remember that quote in a few years time when you are working a 50 hour week, have no Sick Pay or Maternity/Paternity Leave and the only benefit you have is cheaper tampons.

Yeah lol like that's going to happen it's a vote winner that.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Read my post above then.

I hadn’t seen it when I posted. Thank you for not derailing the thread. I see the EU is demanding that AstraZeneca publish the contract they signed with each other.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I'm not going to derail this thread beyond pointing out that a, I said Sick Pay rather than SSP, and b, Workers Rights, Who do you genuinely think sets the higher standards, the EU or a Tory government ?

I would say we all have the choice to vote who we want. It has to be remembered we as a country introduced most of the industrial workers protection legislation that the world has followed. The Romans started it (what have they ever done for us?) but we led the way in the World for centuries .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_labour_law_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

[Charity Shield 1910]

The EU vaccine procurement problems raises a few things:-

1. Practically, my German relatives in their 70's will not be vaccinated until summer 2021 at the earliest and my cousin, who knows. It could be in 2022. As against the UK where every over 70 will be vaccinated by mid Feb 2021. This puts lives at risk and then the economic fall out also. If the position was reversed then can you imagine the press?
2. Who do my German relatives hold accountable? Well they can't really vote against the German government because they had nothing to do with it. So who in the EU can they vote against? Nobody, because it was the civil service that dealt with procurement. It shows the importance of direct democratic accountability for those who create law, regulation and governance over people. The EU has simply got things the wrong way around, a civil service that creates law and runs things. Then weak local member state parliaments who implement what is said. It's a fundamental floor of the model that really does need to be looked at. But first the people and member states have got to first understand this floor and then they can start to address it. It will be difficult but it has to be faced or else the EU will go one of two ways. It will either end or the other is even more of a worry.

 

[vegster]

I hadn’t seen it when I posted. Thank you for not derailing the thread. I see the EU is demanding that AstraZeneca publish the contract they signed with each other.

That was in response to post#57.... If the EU is demanding AstraZeneca publish their contract I would assume they ( The EU ) feel they are in the right, morally and contractually.

 

[jcdenton08]

Not much to do with Brexit, but they made the correct spin of the dice.

Yes, but surely you accept the government made the correct throw of the roulette wheel, by putting all their aces in a row next to the ducks.

 

[vegster]

I would say we all have the choice to vote who we want. It has to be remembered we as a country introduced most of the industrial workers protection legislation that the world has followed. The Romans started it (what have they ever done for us?) but we led the way in the World for centuries .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_labour_law_in_the_United_Kingdom

Careful, you are derailing the thread..... I did just now but, I think I got away with it.

 

[drew]

I would say we all have the choice to vote who we want. It has to be remembered we as a country introduced most of the industrial workers protection legislation that the world has followed. The Romans started it (what have they ever done for us?) but we led the way in the World for centuries .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_labour_law_in_the_United_Kingdom

Dodging the question. Our duly elected Tory government are already making noises about reducing workers rights and reducing regulation that protects the consumer. But crack on.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Careful, you are derailing the thread..... I did just now but, I think I got away with it.

Pre-match nervous, sorry

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

That was in response to post#57.... If the EU is demanding AstraZeneca publish their contract I would assume they ( The EU ) feel they are in the right, morally and contractually.

Indeed. Looking forward to the next move

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

No, and I suspect this is only the beginning of a serious deterioration in our relationship with the EU.

We started it with a confrontational stance for the negotiations...... how many times did I hear “we’re not going to blink first......”

 

[GT49er]

The EU vaccine procurement problems raises a few things:-

1. Practically, my German relatives in their 70's will not be vaccinated until summer 2021 at the earliest and my cousin, who knows. It could be in 2022. As against the UK where every over 70 will be vaccinated by mid Feb 2021. This puts lives at risk and then the economic fall out also. If the position was reversed then can you imagine the press?
2. Who do my German relatives hold accountable? Well they can't really vote against the German government because they had nothing to do with it. So who in the EU can they vote against? Nobody, because it was the civil service that dealt with procurement. It shows the importance of direct democratic accountability for those who create law, regulation and governance over people. The EU has simply got things the wrong way around, a civil service that creates law and runs things. Then weak local member state parliaments who implement what is said. It's a fundamental floor of the model that really does need to be looked at. But first the people and member states have got to first understand this floor and then they can start to address it. It will be difficult but it has to be faced or else the EU will go one of two ways. It will either end or the other is even more of a worry.

Bit of a floor in that argument!




(I broadly agree with the sentiment expressed though).

 

[Gullzone]

Remember that quote in a few years time when you are working a 50 hour week, have no Sick Pay or Maternity/Paternity Leave and the only benefit you have is cheaper tampons.

Were out so get over it !!!

 

[Easy 10]

We could have approved and ordered vaccine independently, even if we had still been in the EU. So, whilst the EU as a bloc haven't done very well - it is not because we have left the EU that we were ahead of the game.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/covid-vaccine-decisions-brexit

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55822602

The UK did not take part in the EU vaccine scheme, although it could have done until the end of 2020, while it was still in the Brexit transition period.

At the time, the government said it was opting out because it felt it wouldn't be allowed to continue its own negotiations with potential suppliers and wouldn't have a say on the price, volume and date of possible deliveries.

The UK was the first country in the world to approve the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine (and rolled it out several weeks before the EU).

The UK has also approved the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine and the Moderna vaccine.


You could say the UK government saw all the red tape coming, and made a calculated swerve that has now paid off.
Don't get me wrong, its been an overall shambles, which has directly resulted in tge highest death rate in Europe. But this was one call they got right.

 

[vegster]

I would say we all have the choice to vote who we want. It has to be remembered we as a country introduced most of the industrial workers protection legislation that the world has followed. The Romans started it (what have they ever done for us?) but we led the way in the World for centuries .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_labour_law_in_the_United_Kingdom

Weren't we also the pioneers of the the Triangular Slave Trade until we suddenly got cold feet ?

 

[GT49er]

We started it with a confrontational stance for the negotiations...... how many times did I hear “we’re not going to blink first......”

I don't know - what is the French for 'we're not going to blink first'?

 

[Baker lite]

Weren't we also the pioneers of the the Triangular Slave Trade until we suddenly got cold feet ?

There are some that stalk these boards that support modern day slavery , through their advocacy of illegal immigration.
On a side note, the country has now whiffed the coffee, the EU are not our friends, never have been, they want to get their paws on our vaccines...