English football considers league restructure

[somerset]

What would happen if a prem team gets relegated to league 1 over 2 seasons (eg Wolves), and their B team is in league 1. Would they automatically be relegated regardless of where they finished the season before?

Yes

 

[Boys 9d]

And who exactly is going to go and WATCH the ressies anyway ? The crowds would be paltry. You might go along to the odd game out of mild interest to see who's coming through, but if that B team isn't allowed to get promoted to the level of its parent club, theres no real incentive to really get behind the ressies and support them in the traditional sense of supporting a club.

RUBBISH idea.

I watched Montpellier many times in the French top Division. The reserves playing in a lower part of their pyramid had their games as a "warm up" for the first team.while fans were arriving. It did help that all top division Saturday games were held in the evening. The reserve teams could not be promoted above the 4th level of the pyramid and the highest finishing "first teams" in each of the regionalised divisions at level 4 were promoted even if they finished in the lower part of the league table.

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

Absolute dogsh*t of an idea which would effectively kill off lower league football. A better idea would be to enhance the Development Squad Leagues to make them more open to lower league sides.

Non-League sides could do with being brought towards the football league as well. An extra promotion spot from the current Conference Premier to League 2 (with an extra relegation place from L2) would open it up to an extra team. Possibly rebrand the Conference Premier "League 3" so it is in line with the Football League, which could also possibly lead to increased revenue for current NL clubs.

Clubs in the Conference Premier should also be able to take part in the Paint Trophy, maybe add on an extra preliminary round where clubs from that league are drawn against each other - with the winners progressing into the actual competition. Playing against higher league sides could be a money spinner for some clubs and it will have a real upset factor.

 

[brakespear]

Not saying it is right the thing to do. But people have constantly moaned about England not winning anything and asked The FA for answers. So they have looked at the most successful European teams - Spain and Germany. What do they do? They have their B teams in the league structure to offer competitive football that matters against senior professionals so that the youngsters can gain vital experience. The top flight clubs also have total control over playing style and tactics, so that the players in the B side are playing in exactly the same way they will be in the A side which eases the transition.

That last point is the massive flaw in the loan system in this country. Brighton obviously play a certain way and players need to know how that is and what it entails while they gain experience. So Shamir Goodwin going to Torquay and playing hoof ball will help him how when he is expected to come back here and partake in a patient passing style?

All the FA are doing is looking at what works elsewhere. So is the potential progress of the national side and attempting to make changes to help them lift the world cup worth putting some lower league teams noses out of joint for? That is the question

Not in my opinion, if only from a selfish point of view, we are not long out of L1/L2 and we could easily be back there at some point.

 

[Worthingite]

"I support Man United B".......said no one ever. And that should be the biggest reason why this proposal should not go through.

Football shouldn't be about making top dollar, and making rich clubs richer. It should be about the fans, and the communities that teams come from. Smaller teams, from L1,L2 and the top of the pyramid WOULD go out of business because of it.

The proposals shouldn't be about making successful clubs more successful, they should be about bridging the gap between the have's and the have not's. I would suggest, with the millions that will inevitably go into this research and restructure - pack it in, and divide the money you would spend between the bottom 20 clubs in the league, and the top 20 clubs in the conference, so clubs like Hereford, with a tens of thousands of pounds tax bill, can stay afloat. That's what's needed the most.

 

[beorhthelm]

As I said before, in the most highly regarded league in Europe they have 'B' or '2' teams competing all the way down the leagues, yes there are restrictions on them being promoted, there are other requirements too that ensure it works out for the other teams in the lower leagues. It Shouldn't be discounted out of hand without first reviewing and understanding how it works in Germany.

the problem with comparison to the Germand and Spanish leagues is that, as we have had our format for decades/forever, they have had their format for decades/forever (i assume it not changed much in detail). So while they have 18/20 teams in each of 2 tiers below the top, we have 24 teams in 3 tiers. They have a tradition of B teams in the third/forth tier, we dont. we have 92 separate professional clubs (plus another dozen or two semi-pro or with a trandition of being in the 92)... what this adds up to is we have too many clubs. which ones are to be sacrificed to allow space for the B teams? I think review of other factors such as league rules (limiting number of foreign or non-academy players) and coaching is the way forward, not talking about killing off clubs.

 

[father_and_son]

I think review of other factors such as league rules (limiting number of foreign or non-academy players) and coaching is the way forward, not talking about killing off clubs.

While I completely agree with you the first EU Directive specifically forbids these types of restriction of work by member states.

It won't be long before UKIP jump on this as the reason for all football fans to vote for them! Withdraw from the EU to improve our national squad! How bizarre!

 

[symyjym]

It would trip up the loan market of players from the top tier. If this new system is carried out players like Lingard wouldn't be as readily available on loan.

 

[keaton]

While I completely agree with you the first EU Directive specifically forbids these types of restriction of work by member states.

It won't be long before UKIP jump on this as the reason for all football fans to vote for them! Withdraw from the EU to improve our national squad! How bizarre!

You could do something with prize money and make it more attractive for teams to play English players. You could have a set fee paid to a club for each match as long as they fielded a certain amount england-qualified players in the starting line up or match day squad. It would then become appealing to mid-table teams to develop English players as it would give them more money

 

[Trigger]

First hint of a B team anywhere near the league is the day I give up going.

 

[father_and_son]

I have never understood this. Surely it is not a restriction of work as a club can employ as many players from the EU as it wants, they just all can't be in the starting 11. That rule would not stop them being able to sign for English clubs and so would not restrict their right to work.

Still discrimination as they are not getting an equal chance at work/promotion/pay/whichever way you want to look at the 'benefits' of first team appearances. The FA are guilty of not seeing this coming when the EU Directive was first proposed - they should have been lobbying for an exemption then because a football team is not the same as a normal company and this ramifications of this law were clear - for as long as the English leagues are attractive to foreign players, the best from EU can always trump local talent.

 

[BensGrandad]

I see no problem with this just do as most local leagues do and say they can only be promoted to the divion below the one their 1st team is in. This means using this season as an example if Fulham were relegated from the Premier they could be replaced by their B team if they finished in a promotion spot if not they woud be relegated to Div 1. Players would have to be registered for Fulham A or B team so no interchanging to gain possible promotion with a very low accetable games, ie if played more than 6 for one team not able to play for the other in the same season.

 

[Ravids]

It could ruin lower league football but probably improve the quality of national side in the long run, a tough decision for the FA to make tbh.

Those of you saying the B teams will dominate the championship are probably wrong, Real Madrid B and Barcelona B struggle to reach the top 6 in the Spanish 2nd tier and often end up in mid table and have been known to be relegated to the 3rd tier. Dortmund's second team only just avoided relegation to the 4th tier this season too. Interesting to see what decision they make.

 

[AZ Gull]

I see no problem with this just do as most local leagues do and say they can only be promoted to the divion below the one their 1st team is in. This means using this season as an example if Fulham were relegated from the Premier they could be replaced by their B team if they finished in a promotion spot if not they woud be relegated to Div 1. Players would have to be registered for Fulham A or B team so no interchanging to gain possible promotion with a very low accetable games, ie if played more than 6 for one team not able to play for the other in the same season.

You made more sense when you suggested that Tony Bloom was a frontman for a secretive Arab businessman.

 

[ewe2]

I would only have loans downwards and not in the same division or upwards. I would create a draft system where as each club below the premier league are contract bound to take at least 5 British premier league under 24 players on season long loans.The cost would be met by the premier league.At least if fit 3 would have to be in the match day squad and there would be a loan transfer window in January.This scheme would keep the integrity of the league,help with their wage cost,and allow young British players some competitive football.......

 

[cunning fergus]

While I completely agree with you the first EU Directive specifically forbids these types of restriction of work by member states.

It won't be long before UKIP jump on this as the reason for all football fans to vote for them! Withdraw from the EU to improve our national squad! How bizarre!

At the risk of turning this into an EU issue; it’s not as bizarre as you think……………..they have already interfered.

The EU was responsible for the Bosman ruling (great news for small clubs), and in 2005 the Commission stepped in to force the Premier League to sell its TV rights to more than one broadcaster (a step that was warmly welcomed by consumers).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4156138.stm

This interference in the TV rights auction process by the Commission was taken on the basis of a failure in EU competition law, a primary plank of how the EU and its internal single market should function (this is important).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_102_of_the_Treaty_on_the_Functioning_of_the_European_Union

The next auction for the Premier League TV rights is likely be absolutely massive following on from BT’s grab of the Champions League rights from SKY, and bids for the 3 seasons from 2015/16 could be at least double the 1bn per season being paid now.

http://www.uswitch.com/tv/news/2014...ks_early_tv_rights_battle_between_bt_and_sky/

The FFP rules were recently introduced by UEFA on the back of EU Rules that restrict the use of “State Aid” in financial undertakings; i.e. football clubs.

Professional football clubs pursue their activities in many markets: participation in competitions; buying, selling and leasing players; sponsoring; merchandising; broadcasting and publicity agreements and others. Public financial support (state aid) to such clubs is therefore likely to distort competition and affect trade between Member States. Such aid is in principle incompatible with the internal market and can only be authorised under strict conditions. Any aid must, furthermore, be notified to the Commission in advance. In fact, very few aid measures to professional football clubs have so far been notified to the Commission.

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-12-264_en.htm?locale=en

The last statement in the Press Release is really interesting, there is no evidence of state aid in football. Have there been any cases in the UK where football clubs have received a subsidy from the UK Taxpayer? (notwithstanding educational initiatives). However it is on this flimsy basis that the EU has interfered again in football.

Most ironic point of all though is that the new FFP rules may not be compatible with EU competition Rules and are currently being challenged by the lawyer behind Bosman.

http://www.matrixlaw.co.uk/uploads/...7_Fair or foul - Part 1 and Part 2 (word).pdf

The hard reality is where there is filthy lucre there will be those after a slice, and as the Premier League gets richer don’t underestimate the capacity for the unelected bureaucrats Brussels to want to stick their beaks in.................not always for the better. Given their history of interference I suspect a single EU wide football "market" is not beyond the realms of possibility.