[Football] England v Germany 5pm . On the front foot from the start .

[hans kraay fan club]

Was Stones limping towards the end? Looked like he was struggling for much of the second half. Or is that wishful thinking on my part?

Stones has been different level this tournament. Flawless in his own work, and constantly covering the lapses of Mings and then Maguire.

What a strange thing to wish for

 

[Badger Boy]

I'm all for the positive spin surrounding Raheem Sterling at the moment, but I do think it requires a fairly healthy amount of selective forgetfulness to really praise his performance last night. So many times he ran down a blind alley or didn't even consider playing a pass. He is fantastic at finding space in the penalty area, however, and he made a fantastic run which resulted in his goal.

Even so - I don't think I'd be looking to start him on saturday. I think Sancho or Grealish would be my choices, and have Sterling as an option off the bench. I think Sancho's lack of game time is extraordinary given he's been arguably the most productive English attacking player, other than Kane, for the last two or three seasons. He might not be Southgate's mate, but he is a very talented footballer.

 

[vagabond]

I'm all for the positive spin surrounding Raheem Sterling at the moment, but I do think it requires a fairly healthy amount of selective forgetfulness to really praise his performance last night. So many times he ran down a blind alley or didn't even consider playing a pass. He is fantastic at finding space in the penalty area, however, and he made a fantastic run which resulted in his goal.

Even so - I don't think I'd be looking to start him on saturday. I think Sancho or Grealish would be my choices, and have Sterling as an option off the bench. I think Sancho's lack of game time is extraordinary given he's been arguably the most productive English attacking player, other than Kane, for the last two or three seasons. He might not be Southgate's mate, but he is a very talented footballer.

So you’d drop Sterling now. Wow. I really don’t know what more he can do to please some fans. Not sure the precise stat off the top of my head, but he’s scored something like 10 goals in his last 15 games for England.

And in this tournament has been our match winner in all but one game. Scored all but one of our goals and scored in all but one of our games. He’s probably been our most impressive starter followed by Pickford then Grealish. Yesterday until jack came on Raheem was the only player willing to run at players and caused lots of problems for their back line.

Agree on Grealish and Sancho by the way. I want them to play. But what about Foden? Saka? Rashford? Mount? I want all these players to play! But whoever you leave out someone can always say “why aren’t they playing?” We can’t play them all.

 

[Badger Boy]

So you’d drop Sterling now. Wow. I really don’t know what more he can do to please some fans. Not sure the precise stat off the top of my head, but he’s scored something like 10 goals in his last 15 games for England.

And in this tournament has been our match winner in all but one game. Scored all but one of our goals and scored in all but one of our games. He’s probably been our most impressive starter followed by Pickford then Grealish. Yesterday until jack came on Raheem was the only player willing to run at players and caused lots of problems for their back line.

Agree on Grealish and Sancho by the way. I want them to play. But what about Foden? Saka? Rashford? Mount? I want all these players to play! But whoever you leave out someone can always say “why aren’t they playing?” We can’t play them all.

I don't think he brings as much to the team as Foden, Rashford, Sancho or Saka. All the time he's in the team, I would hope he would do something - and there's nothing more important than scoring a goal. In reality, there's no chance he doesn't start on saturday and fair play to him, if he keeps getting in the right place at the right time he justifies it. But personally, I don't rate him as highly as others in the squad and I think he's quite lucky Southgate is his biggest fan. Other than Rio Ferdinand maybe.

I thought he was very lucky to stay on last night when Saka came off. But I do like his selfishness in the penalty area, that's definitely something he has over Saka.

 

[vagabond]

I don't think he brings as much to the team as Foden, Rashford, Sancho or Saka. All the time he's in the team, I would hope he would do something - and there's nothing more important than scoring a goal. In reality, there's no chance he doesn't start on saturday and fair play to him, if he keeps getting in the right place at the right time he justifies it. But personally, I don't rate him as highly as others in the squad and I think he's quite lucky Southgate is his biggest fan. Other than Rio Ferdinand maybe.

I thought he was very lucky to stay on last night when Saka came off. But I do like his selfishness in the penalty area, that's definitely something he has over Saka.

As I say, I don’t know what the guy has to do to please some fans if scoring in all but one game is not enough. I think he’s so underrated for England. Look at his all round game, maturity and character. Aside from his performances there’s probably a lot he brings to the team and young players through his personality that we don’t see.

Foden started the tournament and was largely ineffective. Rashford / Sancho / Saka / Foden, I like all these players. But surely Sterling has to keep his spot until he deserves to be dropped. If he keeps being a match winner in every game it’s his shirt to lose, how it should be.

Southgate has got it right when it mattered. Tbh I don’t see how we can be criticising his team selections at the moment.

 

[Badger Boy]

As I say, I don’t know what the guy has to do to please some fans if scoring in all but one game is not enough. I think he’s so underrated for England. Look at his all round game, maturity and character. Aside from his performances there’s probably a lot he brings to the team and young players through his personality that we don’t see.

Foden started the tournament and was largely ineffective. Rashford / Sancho / Saka / Foden, I like all these players. But surely Sterling has to keep his spot until he deserves to be dropped. If he keeps being a match winner in every game it’s his shirt to lose, how it should be.

Southgate has got it right when it mattered. Tbh I don’t see how we can be criticising his team selections at the moment.

I'm pleased that he's scored the goals - obviously. I'm hoping we'll win a tournament, you don't do that without scoring! As I say, he's got remarkable instincts in the penalty area. But he does almost nothing outside it for the vast majority of the game. I wonder how differently the reception for him would have been had Muller not rolled his one on one wide of the post. Say whatever you like about his all round game, that was a huge moment and he was extremely fortunate to get away with it. I'm happy to forget about it because it ultimately didn't matter, but I'm not going to get carried away by the hype train. If you want to be, enjoy the ride!

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

Stones has been different level this tournament. Flawless in his own work, and constantly covering the lapses of Mings and then Maguire.

What a strange thing to wish for

Obviously I'm not wishing that one of the key defenders in a team that has not conceded yet in the tournament should be injured. But as a Brighton fan, I'd love to see what Ben White can do on this stage. Esp in a 3 CB defence given his experience under Potter. If Stones is injured - and I may just have been reading something into his behaviour later in the game - then I'd love White to have the opportunity.

And clearly I wasn't hoping that I'd get to see that buffoon Mings playing.

 

[keaton]

I'm all for the positive spin surrounding Raheem Sterling at the moment, but I do think it requires a fairly healthy amount of selective forgetfulness to really praise his performance last night. So many times he ran down a blind alley or didn't even consider playing a pass. He is fantastic at finding space in the penalty area, however, and he made a fantastic run which resulted in his goal.

Even so - I don't think I'd be looking to start him on saturday. I think Sancho or Grealish would be my choices, and have Sterling as an option off the bench. I think Sancho's lack of game time is extraordinary given he's been arguably the most productive English attacking player, other than Kane, for the last two or three seasons. He might not be Southgate's mate, but he is a very talented footballer.

I think a lot of last night's performance has been overpraised based on the result but I'm not sure you could criticise Sterling last night. I think he did consider passing whenever he got the ball and then realised the only team mate within 40 yards was an entirely stationary Kane. His running at defenders was a lot of the time our only way of attacking

 

[Mellotron]

**** me - just read back through the match thread and there is a COLOSSAL pile of utter shit in the comments.

 

[Mellotron]

I get that we haven't beaten Germany that often, but the BBC post-match coverage seems a bit OTT, to me. They seem to be interviewing each player individually, and discussing it as if this is the greatest achievement ever in football, as if they've just won the euros themselves.

This is arguably England's biggest result in 55 years - ie in most of our lifetime's. We haven't ever knocked out Germany since then. Or ANY top sides, for that matter (bar Spain on pens in 96).

Which results would you put as more important? Possibly the Holland 4-1 in 1996 but that wasn't a knockout game. Narrative wise this is an absolutely seismic and very, very, very rare result.

 

[Napper]

Plenty with egg on face now . More fool you for not enjoying it from the start

Bandwagon still has spaces though

 

[Seaview Seagull]

I'm all for the positive spin surrounding Raheem Sterling at the moment, but I do think it requires a fairly healthy amount of selective forgetfulness to really praise his performance last night. So many times he ran down a blind alley or didn't even consider playing a pass. He is fantastic at finding space in the penalty area, however, and he made a fantastic run which resulted in his goal.

Even so - I don't think I'd be looking to start him on saturday. I think Sancho or Grealish would be my choices, and have Sterling as an option off the bench. I think Sancho's lack of game time is extraordinary given he's been arguably the most productive English attacking player, other than Kane, for the last two or three seasons. He might not be Southgate's mate, but he is a very talented footballer.

I'm sorry but I don't remember Sancho ever playing that well for England. I'm sure he is a great club player but not so great for country.

 

[vagabond]

I think a lot of last night's performance has been overpraised based on the result but I'm not sure you could criticise Sterling last night. I think he did consider passing whenever he got the ball and then realised the only team mate within 40 yards was an entirely stationary Kane. His running at defenders was a lot of the time our only way of attacking

He worked really hard across the pitch too, some of his tracking back and defending was absolutely first class.

 

[Brovion]

This is arguably England's biggest result in 55 years - ie in most of our lifetime's. We haven't ever knocked out Germany since then. Or ANY top sides, for that matter (bar Spain on pens in 96).

Which results would you put as more important? Possibly the Holland 4-1 in 1996 but that wasn't a knockout game. Narrative wise this is an absolutely seismic and very, very, very rare result.

This with bells, knobs and whistles on. It is our single greatest result since 1966. Of course it would be nice if it wasn't such a big deal, just a routine knock-out victory on our way to yet another final ..... but it isn't.

 

[vagabond]

This is arguably England's biggest result in 55 years - ie in most of our lifetime's. We haven't ever knocked out Germany since then. Or ANY top sides, for that matter (bar Spain on pens in 96).

Which results would you put as more important? Possibly the Holland 4-1 in 1996 but that wasn't a knockout game. Narrative wise this is an absolutely seismic and very, very, very rare result.

[emoji106]

It’s astonishing isn’t it. I’m genuinely shocked at the non plussed reaction from some England fans today.

It really highlights what an insanely difficult job the England one is. Draw or lose and you’re slaughtered and ridiculed. Win, and a section of the fan base are fairly ho hum. Win and a section of the fans say you weren’t attacking enough, didn’t get enough goals. Win and some will still say you picked the wrong team or the wrong tactics. Or the worst for me is, win and some will say “ah, but they weren’t a good team anyway, they’re poor/past it”.

Very short memories some people have. Anyone remember Iceland? Look at France who are going home. No guarantees at this level no matter who you play.

 

[Swansman]

I'm all for the positive spin surrounding Raheem Sterling at the moment, but I do think it requires a fairly healthy amount of selective forgetfulness to really praise his performance last night. So many times he ran down a blind alley or didn't even consider playing a pass. He is fantastic at finding space in the penalty area, however, and he made a fantastic run which resulted in his goal.

Even so - I don't think I'd be looking to start him on saturday. I think Sancho or Grealish would be my choices, and have Sterling as an option off the bench. I think Sancho's lack of game time is extraordinary given he's been arguably the most productive English attacking player, other than Kane, for the last two or three seasons. He might not be Southgate's mate, but he is a very talented footballer.

Sterling got 15 goals in his last 20 games for England. In this tournament he scored the only goal vs Croatia and then the only goal against the Czechs and then the very important 1-0 goal yesterday. And you want to bench him?

 

[Acker79]

Tough crowd.

“We haven’t beaten Germany that often”? We haven’t beaten them in knockout since 1966. Give a little credit, the pundits are England fans and they’re entitled to enjoy the moment. As many of us did.

This is arguably England's biggest result in 55 years - ie in most of our lifetime's. We haven't ever knocked out Germany since then. Or ANY top sides, for that matter (bar Spain on pens in 96).

Which results would you put as more important? Possibly the Holland 4-1 in 1996 but that wasn't a knockout game. Narrative wise this is an absolutely seismic and very, very, very rare result.

I'd like to retract my comment. I was wrong to say we've not beaten them that often. We've beaten them almost as often as they have beaten us (14 to 15).

Making a big deal about beating Germany in a knockout game (or any big team... if you ignore that big team we also knocked out) is like when we beat West Ham away in our first season in the Premier League and sky sports ran with "Brighton get their first top flight away win in over 30 years!". Yeah, it's hard to win top flight away games when you're not in the top flight.

We've played them in the knockout stages of tournaments 6 times. We've won (now) two of them, and two of them were all square at the end of extra time (a loss is a loss, but I mention this to note how it's not like we're so far behind them that they always beat us with ease). We've also beaten them in group stages of the euros, beaten them in qualifying matches (a quite memorable 5-1 in Germany). Our overall record against them is won 14, drawn 4, and lost 15. It's an inferiority complex to act like it beating them in a competitive match is some how worthy of celebrating as if we've won the whole tournament and labelling it the most important match of our life times.

It was a first knockout round match. It allows us to qualify for the quarter finals of the Euros 2020. If we lose on saturday, last nights win means very little at all. If we win on Saturday, the Uktraine game will be the one that gets us to the Semi finals of a major tournament for only the third time since 1966. Seems to me that (along with the quarter final wins in the 1990 and 2018 world cups) are more important than the game that gets us to the quarter finals of the euros.

It's great that we won. I'm happy we won. I'm sure, on a personal level for Southgate it's a monkey off his back. For people with personal links to Germany (a partner, a job etc,) it means a little more, but come on. Most important match in 55 years is ridiculous hyperbole. The BBC coverage was ott. It's like Pogba's goal celebration (or Pardew's). That sort of coverage should really be saved for getting to or winning a final.

 

[Icy Gull]

Sterling got 15 goals in his last 20 games for England. In this tournament he scored the only goal vs Croatia and then the only goal against the Czechs and then the very important 1-0 goal yesterday. And you want to bench him?

Sterling scares the shit out of defenders, leaving space for Kane to wander around laconically, yeah let’s drop Sterling

 

[Stat Brother]

**** me - just read back through the match thread and there is a COLOSSAL pile of utter shit in the comments.

Not all the comments!

 

[Mellotron]

It's great that we won. I'm happy we won. I'm sure, on a personal level for Southgate it's a monkey off his back. For people with personal links to Germany (a partner, a job etc,) it means a little more, but come on. Most important match in 55 years is ridiculous hyperbole. The BBC coverage was ott. It's like Pogba's goal celebration (or Pardew's). That sort of coverage should really be saved for getting to or winning a final.

For your point to be even close to valid, you need to be able to easily name, say, 5-6 comfortably bigger/more important performances for England since 96, given you think this one has been massively overstated.

To suggest if we go out on Saturday this win means nothing shows you have completely misunderstood the broader picture. There is a sizeable part of me that genuinely doesn’t give a shit if we get any further in this tournament or not. This was comfortably the most important win in my lifetime, hands down.

Anyway, sorry, your list of mythical wins. This should be good.