England Manager - Another FA cock-up in the making?

[A Melbourne Albion Supporter]

1. Hiddink
2. Capello
3. Curbishly

 

[Pavilionaire]

We know there's no quality English managers out there, but with the players we've got anyone half-decent like Hiddink or O'Neill could take this team all the way.

Players like Ferdinand or Rooney will laugh in the face of someone like Curbishley. They'll try to do it with Allardyce as well, and they'll all fall out and we'll end up with Upson and Luke Young in defence.

Re the point about not qualifying for tournaments in the 70s - we must have qualified in the 70s for the Euro Championships that took place in 1980.

Anyway, back then you had to win your group to get through, unlike now where 2nd place and a play-off win will suffice. Poland knocked us out and went on to finish 3rd in the WC, Italy did the same 4 years later and they were pretty tasty.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

It's going to be O'Neill. And he's the right man for the job. Understands English football, more successful with Leicester than Allardyce & Curbishley have been with Bolton & Charlton. Has managed Celtic in the Champions League, though not particularly successfully.

And he's a legend

 

[enigma]

It's going to be O'Neill. And he's the right man for the job. Understands English football, more successful with Leicester than Allardyce & Curbishley have been with Bolton & Charlton. Has managed Celtic in the Champions League, though not particularly successfully.

And he's a legend

Won a mickey mouse trophy with Leicester but were they ever as high as Bolton are now in the league? Bolton are a smaller club than Leicester as well.

 

[A Melbourne Albion Supporter]

Yeah I agree about O'Neill. Why is everyone's opinion of him so high?

Managing an SPL team, do me a favour! There's only one other team and the real test comes in Europe where SPL teams always fail.

Managing a Bolton, Charlton, etc to decent finishes in the EPL far out ranks a top 2 SPL finish.

Let's face it this time round the best candidate is no from the UK. Give O'Neill fours years managing a big EPL club and see how he goes.

Hiddink in!

 

[Stumpy Tim]

Won a mickey mouse trophy with Leicester but were they ever as high as Bolton are now in the league? Bolton are a smaller club than Leicester as well.

Weren't they 4th when he left them? So they did better than Bolton. And Leicester didn't have the spanking new stadium then either

 

[enigma]

Weren't they 4th when he left them? So they did better than Bolton. And Leicester didn't have the spanking new stadium then either

Just had a look, apparently it was 8th. True, they didnt have the stadium, but I dont think really his achievements are greater than Sam Allardyce in England, and Scotland is fairly irrelevant to me.

He did take Celtic to the UEFA cup final, which was a good achievement, although the UEFA cup is not as well contested as it used to be 10 years ago or so.

You would have to assume that Allardyce would do pretty well in Scotland given how well he has done with Bolton. O'Neill had a lot of money to spend with Celtic also, far more than Strachan has had.

For me, the only difference between O'Neill and Allardyce is PR. O'Neill is perceived as a master motivator and a likeable bloke, whereas "Big Sam" is seen as a simple northener who likes the long ball, which is unfair on him. I dont like the way Bolton play football but Leicester were pretty boring too, and I dont remember them having anyone as skilful as Okocha or Djorkaeff in their succesful teams.

I have to agree with Melbourne- the foreign candidates are simply better than the British ones. If they arent going to choose an Englishman, dont go for O'Neill. He's no more able than Allardyce in my opinion.

 

[NMH]

McClaren has had MUCH more than simply European experience - he has had World experience sitting on the coaching and management bench for England. Can he accept another manager from the Prem taking the job over him? Well he accepted that Erikson, international playboy with little else to offer, so why not?

Curbishley has Charlton in the Prem. I mean, CHARLTON! This is not a giant superpower of football is it? Isn't it nice that he has kept them there, overachieving tinpot club with no big stars on their roster? Does he have to get them to 4th in the league before he's recognised as a successful manager?

Allardyce pulls strings rather well for Bolton, and they are a strong opponent - always dangerous for the top clubs to take on. He doesn't look like a pandering "yes" man for the F.A. or a gentleman of English Football and all that.

O'Neill has proven his ability to make things happen, a gentleman and a thoughtful fellow, and looks capable of motivating players without hot temper or bullying. Not that anyone would need that for the England job though.

Pearce is unproven, doesn't consider the job available to him anyway, and is currently as loose a cannon as Keegan was. As a recent player, he might do well for City, but it's obvious we need more than touchline passion - we have fans doing that. We need proof of tactical nouse, and Psycho hasn't got the history, yet.

Now, which huge mega-name towering giant of football does anyone think is EXACTLY the candidate to manage The ENGLAND? Some foreign bloke who has not managed in England perhaps? Howabout one who has failed so-far on the international scene, but does well in the league?

There are no easy choices, there is no one obvious candidate who automatically qualifies, let's face it.
The best football we have seen England play, imho was with golden-boy Glenn, who apparently has looser marbles than was required to retain the position.

The thing that the FA will be looking at, will not be immediate history of success with potless clubs - but potential for success with the pick of the best players from the land.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

None of the English managers that are mentioned are good enough, the only Engishman i would choose is Peter Taylor

 

[Yorkie]

Peter Taylor has long held ambitions for the England job.

Is Martin O'Neill's wife better now? I thought the reason he gave up the Celtic job was to nurse her through cancer?

 

[Stumpy Tim]

The foreign managers don't understand our strengths IMO. That's why Sven hasn't been as successful as hoped. Arsene Wenger realises that, so has no English players in his team. Chelsea play a game heavily based on solid defence and teamwork as opposed to individual brilliance. O'Neill recognises that, and will do a great job

 

[Sid James]

Just for the record, its not so much the stage we go out at that upsets me. Its the manner of our exit thats important. In 1998 we only made the 2nd round, but we put in an epic performance against Argentina and were incredibly unlucky to go out on pens. The team gave their all that night - we could not have asked for any more from the players or the manager.

The exits in 2002 and 2004, although at 1/4 final stage, were pathetic. And few England managers have had this array of talent at their disposal in recent memory, so its only natural that expectations are higher.

I would agree heartily with your appraisal of 1998 and 2004 but not so much 2002. Mistakes were definately made, as Beckham clearly wasn't fit, but I think the middle of the day heat made that game a big ask. We clearly faded as the game went on and maybe substitutions should have been made, but our bench was not ( and still isn't ) a great source of inspiration.

Oh, and Steven Gerrard was injured as well......

 

[Rougvie]

Managing an SPL team, do me a favour! There's only one other team and the real test comes in Europe where SPL teams always fail.

Beating Liverpool and Blackburn, Celta Vigo, and Stutgart to reach a European Final counts as a failure ?

Not to mention famous nights in Europe against the likes of Barcelona etc

 

[Easy 10]

I would agree heartily with your appraisal of 1998 and 2004 but not so much 2002. Mistakes were definately made, as Beckham clearly wasn't fit, but I think the middle of the day heat made that game a big ask. We clearly faded as the game went on and maybe substitutions should have been made, but our bench was not ( and still isn't ) a great source of inspiration.

Oh, and Steven Gerrard was injured as well......

Sir Clive Woodward (World Cup winner)

"“People do wonder how much of an effect the coach can have on a game once he’s sent his players out on the pitch,” Woodward writes in the new issue of FourFourTwo. “For the answer, you only have to look to the Brazil quarter-final at the last World Cup: we were 1-0 up and then facing ten men, yet we still lost.

“I’ve watched that game over and over to see what I would have done in that position. I’d hope that Eriksson has done the same in the last four years, otherwise we could be in big trouble.”

Last year, Woodward went to Brazil to share ideas with and learn from Carlos Alberto Parreira, who coached the South Americans to victory in the 1994 World Cup finals and will take charge of them again in Germany. Brazil defeated England 2-1 in the 2002 quarter-finals under the management of Luis Felipe Scolari.

“I asked [Parreira] about that game,” Woodward writes, “and he believes that England were wrong to try to defend their lead. The Brazilian psyche would have been to attack when you have the advantage, he told me, to kill the game off.

“This fascinated me. I’m not saying that England should try to play like Brazil, but it says to me that you’ve actually got to go and win the World Cup, not just sit back and try to watch the clock running down.

“England have gone out of their last two tournaments because they wanted to do just that: defend the lead. It’s interesting to me that the Brazilian mindset is to go out and attack and they have had the greatest success in World Cups. There’s surely a correlation there.”


I couldn't agree more with that statement. It also happened in 2004 against France. Erikssons defensive mindset is a big factor in what always seems to bollocks things up for us when we crucially have the advantage against the better teams. Unfortunately it'll probably return to haunt us again in the summer.

 

[enigma]

The foreign managers don't understand our strengths IMO. That's why Sven hasn't been as successful as hoped. Arsene Wenger realises that, so has no English players in his team. Chelsea play a game heavily based on solid defence and teamwork as opposed to individual brilliance. O'Neill recognises that, and will do a great job

I don't think Sven was that good in the first place- he had a reputation in Italy as being a nearly man, and was better known for getting on with his players than for his tactical acumen.

Hiddink has managed in several countries before so I dont see why he wouldnt be able to grasp the finer points of the English game.

I think the main reason why Wenger doesnt have any English players in his team is cost- if he can find/poach young talents abroad for a fraction of the price he would pay for someone English, why bother?

 

[Uncle Buck]

I don't think Sven was that good in the first place- he had a reputation in Italy as being a nearly man, and was better known for getting on with his players than for his tactical acumen.

Hiddink has managed in several countries before so I dont see why he wouldnt be able to grasp the finer points of the English game.

I think the main reason why Wenger doesnt have any English players in his team is cost- if he can find/poach young talents abroad for a fraction of the price he would pay for someone English, why bother?

Nearly man?

He has just won the Scudetta (sp) with Lazio.

 

[enigma]

None of the English managers that are mentioned are good enough, the only Engishman i would choose is Peter Taylor

Hmm, I can see your thinking even if Im not sure I agree. I actuallly think Taylor is one of the brightest English managers, better than a few in the Premiership.

Unfortunately, his time at Leicester will stand against him.

 

[Easy 10]

Wenger was very keen on signing SWP until Chelsea got involved and instantly (and predictably) transformed the transfer fee to ludicrous levels. Wenger will clearly sign englishmen at the right price, but as you rightly say Enigma, it boils down to cost.

As a side note, its a huge shame that SWP ended up at Chelsea reserves instead of Highbury. Imagine the player he would become in that Arsenal side under Wenger, with regular European football as well. Such a dreadful waste of one of the brightest talents in English football.

 

[enigma]

Nearly man?

He has just won the Scudetta (sp) with Lazio.

It was only the once though and he had bottled it before. They had also spent an enormous amount of money in doing so, that Lazio team was filled with talent. Salas, Vieri,Mancini, Nesta, Almeyda,Veron,Nedved etc etc.

He was known as a "perdente di lusso", a luxury loser. There were also a lot of rumours that Mancini was the brains behind a lot of the tactics as well.

Not a bad manager, but by no means one of the best.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Wenger was very keen on signing SWP until Chelsea got involved and instantly (and predictably) transformed the transfer fee to ludicrous levels. Wenger will clearly sign englishmen at the right price, but as you rightly say Enigma, it boils down to cost.

As a side note, its a huge shame that SWP ended up at Chelsea reserves instead of Highbury. Imagine the player he would become in that Arsenal side under Wenger, with regular European football as well. Such a dreadful waste of one of the brightest talents in English football.

Wegner and English players is somewhat chequered. In the past he has signed Upson, Pennant and Jeffers and even not given them a chance or shipped them out.

Even when they have come through the system with the exception of Cole, they have generally not featured, Sidwell and Stuart Taylor spring to mind there.

Campbell seems to be the only English one he has signed who has been a success.