Wardy's twin
Well-known member
- Oct 21, 2014
- 8,866
I am expecting some bright member of the Tory front bench to say that one of the benefits of global warming will be reduced heating costs .
[News] Energy bills to top £4200 at the start of next year
- Thread starter TomandJerry
- Start date
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I am expecting some bright member of the Tory front bench to say that one of the benefits of global warming will be reduced heating costs .
Icy Gull
Back on the rollercoaster
- Jul 5, 2003
- 72,015
It seems EDF are no longer offering a fixed rate tariff
Variable now 24.49 per kw on electricity and 7.319 per kw for gas on variable
I am with EDF on a fixed rate which was about 70% cheaper than I was quoted yesterday
Should I be worried about EDF collapsing?
Variable now 24.49 per kw on electricity and 7.319 per kw for gas on variable
I am with EDF on a fixed rate which was about 70% cheaper than I was quoted yesterday
Should I be worried about EDF collapsing?
KZNSeagull
Well-known member
It seems EDF are no longer offering a fixed rate tariff
Variable now 24.49 per kw on electricity and 7.319 per kw for gas on variable
I am with EDF on a fixed rate which was about 70% cheaper than I was quoted yesterday
Should I be worried about EDF collapsing?
EDF is owned by the French government (if not 100% fully nationalised at the moment, it soon will be).
studio150
Well-known member
Probably not.
I assume that not offering a fixed rate, is due to the change in the cap being received every 3 months from 6, and the forecast is for huge increases in both October and January.
Once the unit price has settled down or is reducing they will no doubt be back offering fixed rates as they would then see them as being in their favour.
Icy Gull
Back on the rollercoaster
- Jul 5, 2003
- 72,015
The fixed rate they were offering was nearly four times the variable on gas yesterday!!
Bizarre that they pulled it
Our Standard (Variable) tariff is our cheapest tariff deal currently. Unfortunately at this time we cannot offer any fixed tariffs due to the continuing increase in energy prices.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,014
theres a story the industry is about to set up a scheme cap the rates and borrow to cover the shortfall. be interesting if they do better than the politicans.
Worthingite
Sexy Pete... :D
They will have pulled it because it simply isn't cost effective to run it. I can't see them collapsing in the slightest, the ruin that will cause the energy industry in this country would be collossal - They run supply side as well residental offerings so if they went tits up over here it would bring the country to a halt
warmleyseagull
Well-known member
We run a cafe from our house that has mixed planning use. Utilities are on business tariff, but thinking of changing to residential when our fixed rate ends next February. Has anyone experience of doing this?
pure_white
Well-known member
- Dec 8, 2021
- 1,216
Is that even legal?
Icy Gull
Back on the rollercoaster
- Jul 5, 2003
- 72,015
This is interesting and depressing 
https://theconversation.com/energy-...-costs-while-british-families-struggle-188417
https://theconversation.com/energy-...-costs-while-british-families-struggle-188417
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 72,321
Half the country will end up homeless if every c*ntish corporation and buy-to-let landlord with a Property Portfolio insists on their greedy blinkered slice of a very small finite pie. Mass levels of civil disobedience would appear to be the only way forward without huge levels of hmgov intervention
Last edited:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ach-6-000-for-first-time-in-grim-new-forecast
Price Cap Seen to Breach £6,000 for First Time in Grim New Forecast
Price Cap Seen to Breach £6,000 for First Time in Grim New Forecast
Weststander
Well-known member
We're all assuming that we'll all be physically paying, with zero HMG help, £280 pm from 1st October and £356 from 1st Jan. Quite possibly significantly more due to it being the high consumption months.
Truss can do something major about it in the emergency budget she promises.
If she doesn't for poorer folk (1 in 5 household?), I think you could be right.
Weststander
Well-known member
Cornwall Insight, mentioned throughout this as the itk gurus, currently forecast a peak of £4,400 pa in 2023.
https://www.cityam.com/brits-to-face-record-4400-energy-bills-as-gas-prices-refuse-to-come-down/#:~:text=Cornwall%20Insight%E2%80%99s%20forecast%20for%20price%20cap%20suggest%20bills,repeat%20of%20the%20sizable%20exodus%20seen%20in%202021.
Dick Swiveller
Well-known member
- Sep 9, 2011
- 9,524
Just logged into Bulb and checked here I am. £441 in credit so they reckon I should lower my payments. 
This was after they told me a few months ago I needed to pay £200 a month and wouldn't set it much lower. No energy company ever seems to understand the concept of electric heating. I put my council tax rebate in and allowed them to take too much knowing it will cost a fortune in the winter. Stop trying to derail me you halfwits. They were forever trying to tell me I wasn't paying enough until I phoned them up and shouted at them. Now I am purposely paying too much, they want me to pay less.
This was after they told me a few months ago I needed to pay £200 a month and wouldn't set it much lower. No energy company ever seems to understand the concept of electric heating. I put my council tax rebate in and allowed them to take too much knowing it will cost a fortune in the winter. Stop trying to derail me you halfwits. They were forever trying to tell me I wasn't paying enough until I phoned them up and shouted at them. Now I am purposely paying too much, they want me to pay less.
Cheshire Cat
The most curious thing..
I didn't notice the council tax credit as it just disappeared immediately to pay all the other price increases on everything else.
Having said that I can't see how the government can justify or afford to pay everyone's bills every time prices rise. Furlough was supposed to be an exception, not the new norm.
Having said that I can't see how the government can justify or afford to pay everyone's bills every time prices rise. Furlough was supposed to be an exception, not the new norm.
warmleyseagull
Well-known member
Of course it is. The supply is mixed between house and business, same meters.
LamieRobertson
Not awoke
Perhaps that’s the key word….help should be targeted and then some sort of initiative to avoid it happening again
Last edited:
Since1982
Well-known member
Apologies for the length of this, but this is what I received from Octopus today. I don’t know what other companies are doing but their customer comms are generally informative and timely. What struck me about me about this one was the amount they claim they are now paying for the energy they supply (was £1.5bn, now £9bn) and their solution, a price freeze.
Dear Graham,
Next Friday, Ofgem will announce the official level for October's energy price cap. It will be a further huge rise on already high prices.
Your tariff isn't changing right now. Today, I'm writing to you to share what I know, including notes on Government support and everything we're doing to help you prepare for it as best we can. For more on how the cap works, and which tariffs are affected, check our blog.
Make no mistake, this is a fossil fuel crisis. As a direct result of Putin's invasion of Ukraine, global gas prices are astronomical — currently around eight times higher than usual. And because of the way the UK's energy system works, the price of electricity (even renewable electricity) is largely set by the price of gas. I've spoken more about this here. This needs to change — a review is underway, but it won't change things quickly enough to address the crisis.
Gas prices have been like this for almost a year now, but as the energy price cap is based on past wholesale costs, the worst of these rises have not yet passed on to customers.
It is October when this impact will truly hit bills.
Our team help around 30,000 customers a day and we know what this will mean. There is some government support, especially for those who need it most, but a lot more is needed.
We have spent the last year working with other companies and experts to bring ideas to the regulator and government which we hope they will implement. But time is running out and until we hear what the government might do, we want to help our customers prepare. We've recently updated our online Balance Forecast tool with “Crystal Ball mode”. This shows customers on our Flexible Octopus tariff the impact of likely price changes and factors in the government rebates already announced. While it can't be fully accurate, it should hopefully provide some perspective.
To date, Octopus have absorbed over £150m of increases, to keep our costs lower for existing customers, but we simply can't absorb it all. Putting it in perspective — in a normal year, we'd usually pay £1.5bn for the fuel we supply to customers. This year it's more like £9bn. There's more about this below — but to be clear, we have never made a profit and won't do this year.
No energy supplier can solve this problem — this isn't an industry issue, it's a consequence of war. This is why we've been calling on government help for all customers, regardless of who their supplier is.
October's Price Cap in context and Government support currently available
We don't yet know what the October price cap will be, but it's likely to be around £3,500 for a typical home. This is 80% higher than the same time last year and well over twice what it was last winter.
In May the government announced £400 support per household, which will reduce the impact of the October rise to about 50% more than current prices. This will take the form of an automatic monthly credit of £66 or £67 between October and March for all electricity customers, and where appropriate, an automatic reduction in your monthly payments. You don't need to apply for this and we will pass it on automatically — we'll also provide a way for anyone who wants to donate their credits to those who need it more to do so.
Many low-income households received £326 directly to their bank accounts (usually marked "DWP Cost of Living") in July, with a second payment of £324 due in the autumn.
Those on tax credits will also receive £650, but have to wait until autumn for their first payment of £326, followed by a second payment in winter
Anyone receiving disability benefits will automatically receive £150 in September — this will be in addition to the £650 payment where relevant.
Those on a pension will receive an additional £300 winter fuel payment
We speak to 140,000 customers each week — more than we ever have — and know first hand the stress and worry this is already causing, and how many people face genuine difficulties in paying this winter.
We'll keep doing everything we can to help. We've increased our Octopus Assist fund from £5m to £7m and are helping those who need it most in a number of ways including:
Direct financial assistance
Payment plans
Free electric blankets over Winter (using electric blankets to stay snug on your sofa can save £400 on your energy bill).
Loaning thermal cameras to spot heat loss around the home
To help everyone find simple ways to save by using less energy:
Our Winter Workout is coming back in 2022. This gas-saving initiative helped hundreds of thousands of customers cut their gas bills by 12% on average last Winter — collectively, their energy savings would reduce bills by about £10m over just 12 weeks.
Smart energy savings are on the way, where you could be paid to use less electricity at certain times. We'll share more detail about these soon. If you're interested, you'll need a smart meter — join the list to get one here.
Our simple energy saving tips could help a typical household save £400
If you do one thing, please, please check your boiler flow temperature (tip number 1). It's easier than it sounds — takes less than a minute — and could save you hundreds of pounds without affecting your comfort at all. It helped our customer Abigail cut her gas use by 16%.
But it's clear, given the scale of the problem, that only the government can provide sufficient help to make a big enough difference. In effect, Putin has weaponised energy — and it's right that the government helps with this. We do expect more support and will continue to put ideas to the government. For some of our thoughts, read the questions at the end of this email.
Unless the government intervenes, here's the expected events for the coming weeks:
Aug 26th: Ofgem announces cap level
Sep 6th: New Prime Minister takes office
Sep 13th: Octopus starts sending personalised messages with your tariff and estimated details (this will take several days)
Sep 17th: Octopus starts updating direct debit (these will be delivered to those affected over time, based on account status and usually you can adjust them if you think we are wrong)
September 30th - October 6th: You can send us a meter reading at any time — if you'd like to submit one for the changing prices you can do that right up until October 6th. Online is best — you can do it online in seconds.
October 1st: New price cap comes into effect
If you are having difficulty paying, head to this page to find out about the support available and how to access it. You're always welcome to contact us, but we will be busy — very busy. We don't use error-prone “voice recognition”, endless “push button menu” systems or frustrating chatbots. Whether you email or call, you'll deal with real people who're here to help and experiencing the same difficulties as everyone else.
During these times our team will be stretched — even though we've recruited and trained many new team members — so remember you can update your payments, see your bills, take a look at your balance forecast, or move house all from your online account, and doing so will free up our team to help those who need it most.
This is not the sort of email anyone welcomes, but I hope it is helpful. Thank you for your time — if you have a moment, I'd appreciate your thoughts on this email and the crisis — this simplest way is via this very quick survey.
Finally, a word about our team. It's not easy being on either end of calls at the moment, and I'd like to say thank you to the vast, vast majority of customers who have been so thoughtful and have shown such understanding to our team during these times. It makes a huge difference and lets us employ people who really care — thank you.
With regret and determination,
Greg Jackson
Founder, Octopus Energy
What's caused this?
After the lockdowns around the world, global supply chains suffered from shortages, pushing prices up. But Putin's invasion of Ukraine sent gas prices skyrocketing to unprecedented levels and they've only got worse.
Where's the money going?
Put simply, oil and gas extractors. Whilst the cost of extracting gas hasn't increased, the global shortages have increased prices from 60p/therm to £4.80/ therm. To put it in perspective - the UK usually spends £11bn buying the gas to deliver to homes, and to generate electricity for them. This year that's more like £51bn.
Why is renewable electricity more expensive?
The UK has a single wholesale price for electricity — whether renewable or not. Indeed, renewable electricity costs more because we need to pay for certificates on top of the wholesale price. This is bonkers and we have frequently called for reform. This may happen but not in time for this year.
Is Octopus making a profit on this?
No. We've never made a profit, nor paid our shareholders a dividend, and won't do this year. Instead, we have put everything into helping customers.
For perspective, we'd usually pay £1.5b to buy all our customers' energy for a year. This year it'll be more like £9b.
What could the government do?
We were pleased when the government announced its existing support package in May, but since then prices have escalated and that means the package is hundreds of pounds less effective than it was originally intended to be. And with January prices likely to be dramatically higher still, it's clear that the existing support package is not enough.
Whilst there are many ideas, Octopus agrees with other energy companies that the best plan is to freeze the price around the existing cap level. This would be paid for by an industry-wide fund. We'll blog details shortly, but in short — while wholesale prices are higher, companies use the fund to deliver the price freeze and when wholesale prices drop, companies pay back into the fund. This would see prices at current levels for 2-4 years, and then fall over the next decade - especially as cheap renewables come online and market reform passes the savings to customers. Crucially, it would also reduce inflation by about 3.5%, helping reduce other costs across the economy.
Surely the government can't support energy bills forever?
Absolutely right. The markets expect global gas prices to come back down in two-ish years, or sooner if the war in Ukraine resolves. This is because right now, gas storage is being increased and supply chains are being built and re-routed globally so that the UK and Europe get more reliable and resilient access to gas.
At the same time, renewable projects are being accelerated in the UK and across Europe, and electricity markets will be reformed to help bring electricity prices down via cheaper renewables. The long-term thinking in the plans we propose helps absorb the volatile and high market prices in the short term and then bring prices down as gas and electricity markets improve. We don't need magic money, we need shock absorbers and market reform.
Are prices going up more in the UK than in Europe?
Wholesale prices are very similar across Europe but government response varies by country.
This very clear Reuters article is a good summary of the differences in government actions by country.
Is there hope?
Yes. The price freeze proposal would stabilise prices whilst we get long-term solutions in place. And then prices will drift down to not much more than half current levels over the next decade. We will continue to work extremely hard with the rest of the industry, government and other organisation to try to make this - or alternative solutions - a reality.
Dear Graham,
Next Friday, Ofgem will announce the official level for October's energy price cap. It will be a further huge rise on already high prices.
Your tariff isn't changing right now. Today, I'm writing to you to share what I know, including notes on Government support and everything we're doing to help you prepare for it as best we can. For more on how the cap works, and which tariffs are affected, check our blog.
Make no mistake, this is a fossil fuel crisis. As a direct result of Putin's invasion of Ukraine, global gas prices are astronomical — currently around eight times higher than usual. And because of the way the UK's energy system works, the price of electricity (even renewable electricity) is largely set by the price of gas. I've spoken more about this here. This needs to change — a review is underway, but it won't change things quickly enough to address the crisis.
Gas prices have been like this for almost a year now, but as the energy price cap is based on past wholesale costs, the worst of these rises have not yet passed on to customers.
It is October when this impact will truly hit bills.
Our team help around 30,000 customers a day and we know what this will mean. There is some government support, especially for those who need it most, but a lot more is needed.
We have spent the last year working with other companies and experts to bring ideas to the regulator and government which we hope they will implement. But time is running out and until we hear what the government might do, we want to help our customers prepare. We've recently updated our online Balance Forecast tool with “Crystal Ball mode”. This shows customers on our Flexible Octopus tariff the impact of likely price changes and factors in the government rebates already announced. While it can't be fully accurate, it should hopefully provide some perspective.
To date, Octopus have absorbed over £150m of increases, to keep our costs lower for existing customers, but we simply can't absorb it all. Putting it in perspective — in a normal year, we'd usually pay £1.5bn for the fuel we supply to customers. This year it's more like £9bn. There's more about this below — but to be clear, we have never made a profit and won't do this year.
No energy supplier can solve this problem — this isn't an industry issue, it's a consequence of war. This is why we've been calling on government help for all customers, regardless of who their supplier is.
October's Price Cap in context and Government support currently available
We don't yet know what the October price cap will be, but it's likely to be around £3,500 for a typical home. This is 80% higher than the same time last year and well over twice what it was last winter.
In May the government announced £400 support per household, which will reduce the impact of the October rise to about 50% more than current prices. This will take the form of an automatic monthly credit of £66 or £67 between October and March for all electricity customers, and where appropriate, an automatic reduction in your monthly payments. You don't need to apply for this and we will pass it on automatically — we'll also provide a way for anyone who wants to donate their credits to those who need it more to do so.
Many low-income households received £326 directly to their bank accounts (usually marked "DWP Cost of Living") in July, with a second payment of £324 due in the autumn.
Those on tax credits will also receive £650, but have to wait until autumn for their first payment of £326, followed by a second payment in winter
Anyone receiving disability benefits will automatically receive £150 in September — this will be in addition to the £650 payment where relevant.
Those on a pension will receive an additional £300 winter fuel payment
We speak to 140,000 customers each week — more than we ever have — and know first hand the stress and worry this is already causing, and how many people face genuine difficulties in paying this winter.
We'll keep doing everything we can to help. We've increased our Octopus Assist fund from £5m to £7m and are helping those who need it most in a number of ways including:
Direct financial assistance
Payment plans
Free electric blankets over Winter (using electric blankets to stay snug on your sofa can save £400 on your energy bill).
Loaning thermal cameras to spot heat loss around the home
To help everyone find simple ways to save by using less energy:
Our Winter Workout is coming back in 2022. This gas-saving initiative helped hundreds of thousands of customers cut their gas bills by 12% on average last Winter — collectively, their energy savings would reduce bills by about £10m over just 12 weeks.
Smart energy savings are on the way, where you could be paid to use less electricity at certain times. We'll share more detail about these soon. If you're interested, you'll need a smart meter — join the list to get one here.
Our simple energy saving tips could help a typical household save £400
If you do one thing, please, please check your boiler flow temperature (tip number 1). It's easier than it sounds — takes less than a minute — and could save you hundreds of pounds without affecting your comfort at all. It helped our customer Abigail cut her gas use by 16%.
But it's clear, given the scale of the problem, that only the government can provide sufficient help to make a big enough difference. In effect, Putin has weaponised energy — and it's right that the government helps with this. We do expect more support and will continue to put ideas to the government. For some of our thoughts, read the questions at the end of this email.
Unless the government intervenes, here's the expected events for the coming weeks:
Aug 26th: Ofgem announces cap level
Sep 6th: New Prime Minister takes office
Sep 13th: Octopus starts sending personalised messages with your tariff and estimated details (this will take several days)
Sep 17th: Octopus starts updating direct debit (these will be delivered to those affected over time, based on account status and usually you can adjust them if you think we are wrong)
September 30th - October 6th: You can send us a meter reading at any time — if you'd like to submit one for the changing prices you can do that right up until October 6th. Online is best — you can do it online in seconds.
October 1st: New price cap comes into effect
If you are having difficulty paying, head to this page to find out about the support available and how to access it. You're always welcome to contact us, but we will be busy — very busy. We don't use error-prone “voice recognition”, endless “push button menu” systems or frustrating chatbots. Whether you email or call, you'll deal with real people who're here to help and experiencing the same difficulties as everyone else.
During these times our team will be stretched — even though we've recruited and trained many new team members — so remember you can update your payments, see your bills, take a look at your balance forecast, or move house all from your online account, and doing so will free up our team to help those who need it most.
This is not the sort of email anyone welcomes, but I hope it is helpful. Thank you for your time — if you have a moment, I'd appreciate your thoughts on this email and the crisis — this simplest way is via this very quick survey.
Finally, a word about our team. It's not easy being on either end of calls at the moment, and I'd like to say thank you to the vast, vast majority of customers who have been so thoughtful and have shown such understanding to our team during these times. It makes a huge difference and lets us employ people who really care — thank you.
With regret and determination,
Greg Jackson
Founder, Octopus Energy
What's caused this?
After the lockdowns around the world, global supply chains suffered from shortages, pushing prices up. But Putin's invasion of Ukraine sent gas prices skyrocketing to unprecedented levels and they've only got worse.
Where's the money going?
Put simply, oil and gas extractors. Whilst the cost of extracting gas hasn't increased, the global shortages have increased prices from 60p/therm to £4.80/ therm. To put it in perspective - the UK usually spends £11bn buying the gas to deliver to homes, and to generate electricity for them. This year that's more like £51bn.
Why is renewable electricity more expensive?
The UK has a single wholesale price for electricity — whether renewable or not. Indeed, renewable electricity costs more because we need to pay for certificates on top of the wholesale price. This is bonkers and we have frequently called for reform. This may happen but not in time for this year.
Is Octopus making a profit on this?
No. We've never made a profit, nor paid our shareholders a dividend, and won't do this year. Instead, we have put everything into helping customers.
For perspective, we'd usually pay £1.5b to buy all our customers' energy for a year. This year it'll be more like £9b.
What could the government do?
We were pleased when the government announced its existing support package in May, but since then prices have escalated and that means the package is hundreds of pounds less effective than it was originally intended to be. And with January prices likely to be dramatically higher still, it's clear that the existing support package is not enough.
Whilst there are many ideas, Octopus agrees with other energy companies that the best plan is to freeze the price around the existing cap level. This would be paid for by an industry-wide fund. We'll blog details shortly, but in short — while wholesale prices are higher, companies use the fund to deliver the price freeze and when wholesale prices drop, companies pay back into the fund. This would see prices at current levels for 2-4 years, and then fall over the next decade - especially as cheap renewables come online and market reform passes the savings to customers. Crucially, it would also reduce inflation by about 3.5%, helping reduce other costs across the economy.
Surely the government can't support energy bills forever?
Absolutely right. The markets expect global gas prices to come back down in two-ish years, or sooner if the war in Ukraine resolves. This is because right now, gas storage is being increased and supply chains are being built and re-routed globally so that the UK and Europe get more reliable and resilient access to gas.
At the same time, renewable projects are being accelerated in the UK and across Europe, and electricity markets will be reformed to help bring electricity prices down via cheaper renewables. The long-term thinking in the plans we propose helps absorb the volatile and high market prices in the short term and then bring prices down as gas and electricity markets improve. We don't need magic money, we need shock absorbers and market reform.
Are prices going up more in the UK than in Europe?
Wholesale prices are very similar across Europe but government response varies by country.
This very clear Reuters article is a good summary of the differences in government actions by country.
Is there hope?
Yes. The price freeze proposal would stabilise prices whilst we get long-term solutions in place. And then prices will drift down to not much more than half current levels over the next decade. We will continue to work extremely hard with the rest of the industry, government and other organisation to try to make this - or alternative solutions - a reality.
KZNSeagull
Well-known member
That's a good idea. Make it happen. Government can concentrate on targeting help to the poorest, one hopes anyway.
Doesn't say where the money for the fund will come from, not the taxpayer I assume.
Doesn't say where the money for the fund will come from, not the taxpayer I assume.