[News] Energy bills to top £4200 at the start of next year

[KZNSeagull]

…agreed and some of that discussed in the program I mentioned above …the competition in the market lest we forget brought us a period of low prices …perhaps too low..then of course this led to some companies being set up who’s business model was unsustainable..hence they were the first to fold…whilst not in favour of privatisation I think we do need some sort of energy policy that is enforceable by whatever colour of government…for example storage of gas…Centrica was allowed to selloff a fair chunk of this…the same should be the case over water…I read somewhere recently that no reservoirs have been built since 1991 despite population growth……water/energy basics of life aren’t they?

Yes indeed, I believe that critical infrastructure should be subject to cross party short, medium and long term plans that cannot be subject to whims of the government of the day, water and power generation being the most basic and important.

 

[Bakero]

[tweet]1557653697986953217[/tweet]

Sounds like a plan.

 

[Driver8]

[tweet]1557653697986953217[/tweet]

Sounds like a plan.

Those earning over £100k already lose their personal allowance by £1 for every £2 over £100k. The effective rate of tax between £100k and £125k is 60%.

I’m also not sure taxing the utility companies will help as it’s not them making the huge profits (and many have gone bust already).

 

[beorhthelm]

…agreed and some of that discussed in the program I mentioned above …the competition in the market lest we forget brought us a period of low prices …perhaps too low..then of course this led to some companies being set up who’s business model was unsustainable..hence they were the first to fold…whilst not in favour of privatisation I think we do need some sort of energy policy that is enforceable by whatever colour of government…for example storage of gas…Centrica was allowed to selloff a fair chunk of this…the same should be the case over water…I read somewhere recently that no reservoirs have been built since 1991 despite population growth……water/energy basics of life aren’t they?

thats not quite right, they shut down the major storage Rough because it was deemed uneconomical. the logic went why have a storage capacity when you have a tap to the North Sea fields, only need a smaller operational buffer. they are now reopening, with an eye on hydrogen storage.

 

[Papak]

Seems to be a lot of talk of £5000 energy cap, that said I think some of the usual tabloid suspects are in bidding war.

They need to be careful printing these kind of headlines, with a complete absence of clarity and leadership from the government a lot of people really are terrified

This number seems to be going up and up but so far I have not seen any actual numbers to back up the annual prediction - does anyone know (at the moment for the £4-5K estimate) what the standing charges are and the rate per kWh for electricity and gas? At least them we could all establish how close or not we are to the "average" household and budget accordingly.

 

[nicko31]

Those earning over £100k already lose their personal allowance by £1 for every £2 over £100k. The effective rate of tax between £100k and £125k is 60%.

I’m also not sure taxing the utility companies will help as it’s not them making the huge profits (and many have gone bust already).

I still think there a lot of people that think utility companies make a fortune, they don't. They are restricted to 2% margin by Ofgem, its a pretty precarious business as we've seen.

 

[pb21]

This number seems to be going up and up but so far I have not seen any actual numbers to back up the annual prediction - does anyone know (at the moment for the £4-5K estimate) what the standing charges are and the rate per kWh for electricity and gas? At least them we could all establish how close or not we are to the "average" household and budget accordingly.

This is from Cornwall Insight.

https://www.cornwall-insight.com/pr...urge-again-and-ofgem-revises-cap-methodology/



Its based on 2,900 kWh electricity and 12,000 kWh gas (seems high?!), not sure what SCs are. Either way the same variables are constant, only price changing, so you can effectively pro-rata for you own circumstance, more or less.

 

[beorhthelm]

Sounds like a plan.

was it removing pension relief on higher rate earners?

 

[LamieRobertson]

thats not quite right, they shut down the major storage Rough because it was deemed uneconomical. the logic went why have a storage capacity when you have a tap to the North Sea fields, only need a smaller operational buffer. they are now reopening, with an eye on hydrogen storage.

I stand corrected

 

[Bakero]

Those earning over £100k already lose their personal allowance by £1 for every £2 over £100k. The effective rate of tax between £100k and £125k is 60%.

I’m also not sure taxing the utility companies will help as it’s not them making the huge profits (and many have gone bust already).

Are you sure about the personal allowance? The government's tax calculator suggests that if you earn 120k a year, your taxable income is £107,500.

(Edit: a bit of research tells me you're correct. You'd think Nick Ferrari would've known this. I guess the plan needs tweaking then )


Presumably, he meant the energy companies rather than utility companies.

 

[nicko31]

This number seems to be going up and up but so far I have not seen any actual numbers to back up the annual prediction - does anyone know (at the moment for the £4-5K estimate) what the standing charges are and the rate per kWh for electricity and gas? At least them we could all establish how close or not we are to the "average" household and budget accordingly.

Well we will know more 26th Aug, if it went to £3500 initially we'd be looking at 51p for elec and about 13p for gas based on an 80% lift.

One option few talk about is Economy 7 on elec, about a third cheaper. Do your slow cooking and run your appliances at night. I have it and its currently 1.30am - 8.30am

 

[Driver8]

Are you sure about the personal allowance? The government's tax calculator suggests that if you earn 120k a year, your taxable income is £107,500.

Presumably, he meant the energy companies rather than utility companies.

Yes I am sure!

https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates/income-over-100000

 

[Papak]

Well we will know more 26th Aug, if it went to £3500 initially we'd be looking at 51p for elec and about 13p for gas based on an 80% lift.

One option few talk about is Economy 7 on elec, about a third cheaper. Do your slow cooking and run your appliances at night. I have it and its currently 1.30am - 8.30am

Thanks for the numbers.

Regarding E7 (it's not actually called that anymore AFAIK) I do not get near enough to the breakeven / savings point for the cheaper (lol) tariff to be worthwhile so should probably review this as it is effectively costing me a little each month for zero benefit. Dishwasher goes on religiously starting at 02:00 but other than washing there are no other savings. I use a slow cooker and have added an air fryer to my armory for this winter to avoid using the range style cooker whether this saves the ~2/3rds consumption of gas vs electricity to make it worthwhile remains to be seen.

I have a Hive system for heating (dual zone) and hot water and have now moved my DHW to every 2 days and will be spending even less time in the shower to ensure 1 tank lasts 48 hours.

I have a stash of logs and a newly installed wood burner so fingers crossed I'm mitigating as much of the increase as possible.

 

[nicko31]

Thanks for the numbers.

Regarding E7 (it's not actually called that anymore AFAIK) I do not get near enough to the breakeven / savings point for the cheaper (lol) tariff to be worthwhile so should probably review this as it is effectively costing me a little each month for zero benefit. Dishwasher goes on religiously starting at 02:00 but other than washing there are no other savings. I use a slow cooker and have added an air fryer to my armory for this winter to avoid using the range style cooker whether this saves the ~2/3rds consumption of gas vs electricity to make it worthwhile remains to be seen.

I have a Hive system for heating (dual zone) and hot water and have now moved my DHW to every 2 days and will be spending even less time in the shower to ensure 1 tank lasts 48 hours.

I have a stash of logs and a newly installed wood burner so fingers crossed I'm mitigating as much of the increase as possible.

I must admit the one good thing about all this is its got us all thinking about efficiency. Before I didn't consider it much.

 

[carlzeiss]

Well we will know more 26th Aug, if it went to £3500 initially we'd be looking at 51p for elec and about 13p for gas based on an 80% lift.

One option few talk about is Economy 7 on elec, about a third cheaper. Do your slow cooking and run your appliances at night. I have it and its currently 1.30am - 8.30am

If you invest in an Inverter with batteries you can charge overnight and then use the low rate during the day

 

[Papak]

I must admit the one good thing about all this is its got us all thinking about efficiency. Before I didn't consider it much.

Just looking at some old spreadsheets from 2014 - 2016 and I was paying ~16p and 6p per kWh then vs the 51p in your earlier post. I reckon I'm consuming more now too due to mesh wifi, hive cameras etc. running 24/7 despite being cost and consumption conscious i.e. zero incandescent lamps in the house.

 

[nicko31]

If you invest in an Inverter with batteries you can charge overnight and then use the low rate during the day

Right now I'm using 3kw off peak and 6kw peak, I reckon that would save me about 90p a day. The payback period seems very long at £300 per year.

Still reckon good old loft insulation is an increase win for more and upgrading any old windows panes to argon filled (quite cheap)

I'd really like to consider solar but I'm struggling to see how it pays....

 

[Simster]

Are you sure about the personal allowance? The government's tax calculator suggests that if you earn 120k a year, your taxable income is £107,500.

(Edit: a bit of research tells me you're correct. You'd think Nick Ferrari would've known this. I guess the plan needs tweaking then )


Presumably, he meant the energy companies rather than utility companies.

[MENTION=3711]Driver8[/MENTION] is indeed correct. I'd just tweak the plan by lowering the threshold from £100k to £80k before it kicks in. I've no idea how much this would raise of course. The rest of it seems a good short term fix though.

 

[Stat Brother]

Seemingly not for all of us

[tweet]1557315015455154182[/tweet]

 

[Weststander]

I like Labour’s plan to freeze elec/gas at £1,971 a year. The SNP and LibDems already proposed this btw.

Not just for the obvious benefit to all of us.

(But it will need to be paid for).

But due to two additional pluses:
- Octopus, Eon etc won’t get all their demands rubber stamped ad infinitum by Ofgem. Always preserving their profits whilst people suffer.
- It will stop the relentless ‘worst case future scenario, is the bad news reality now’ hyperbole from the media and personal finance ‘experts’. Almost revelling in the £1,971 to £3,582 to £4,266 bad news. Stopped dead in their tracks.

Back to reality, increasingly free marketeer Truss will just tit around at the edges.