End the War on Drugs - Breaking the Taboo

[GreersElbow]

If drugs were legal, there would be no drug lords - there would be no violence. .

How funny, and incredibly naive. Why wouldn't there be drug lords? They'll be in business legitimately now. But they still need territories to sell the product. And what premise are you basing the "there'll be no violence" crap from?

Violence can be in many ways. The use of the financial markets for one, can be seen as a violent act....

 

[yxee]

I find that very easy to disagree with- look at the diamond industry, selling diamonds is perfectly legal, yet there is still violence all around the world involved in the illegal mining and production of diamonds from conflict zones.

Even full domestic legalisation at the point of sale is not a silver bullet.

 

[Simster]

In the end, we are losing the war on drugs. Wouldn't it be easier to try and regulate/tax certain drugs even if only on an experimental 12 month basis?

Let's see what impact it has on the health service, tax income at the exchequer, and crime figures before we make any judgements. I just think the time has come to be a bit radical because it's a war that can't be won.

 

[Nibble]

The fact that cigarettes and alcohol are legal but cannabis, mushrooms etc are not is very telling. The doctors and care workers I have spoken to firmly believe decriminilising lower grade drugs and decriminilising but strictly controlling heroin would be the best way to get people off drugs and to minimise the harm to the individual and society at large, in that it would reduce crime, trafficking, and violence. Yet the most harmful by far of all drugs, alcohol and cigarettes are free for anyone over 18 to purchase and consume. Even the most anti-legalisation prone person must smell a rat with that set up surely?

 

[robynsdad]

The key for me is in the word 'taboo'.
This shouldn't (yet) be about whether or not drug use is harmful (I have little experience of harder drugs but anyone that has sat in a darkened room, listening to the velvet underground and discussing the question 'is a loft a room' understands the potential harm to society of even soft drugs), or about whether drugs should be legalized. My opinion is that drugs are bad for people/society, I don't buy the hippy shit about the beneficial effects of drug taking. But I also suspect they are possibly not as bad as often made out. I am also sure, from some personal experience, that the majority of harm caused by the drugs trade under current rules happen elsewhere in the world - the harm we see here is only the tip of the iceburg. And I am of the opinion that they should be legalized but highly controlled.
However...all of these are opinions that I know are based on a relatively poor base of iinformation because to have an open, honest and useful public debate, based on the best possible factual information is simply impossible, as more than one person has found to their cost. The level of media hysteria in response to any suggestion that we should look again at the policy options is just stupid.
So the point of this 'campaign' as I understand it is not in taking a position one way or another (as fun as that may be) but to suggest that we might have a proper, grown up, debate. The current approach to dealing with drugs is clearly not working well. Maybe it is the least worst option, but when we cannot even think about the other options without a witch hunt, how do we know?
I also hate 'celebrity led' campaigns, but no need to led beardy virgin guy stop us discussing something quite important.

 

[daveinprague]

At the end of the day, I would rather 'cannabis' wasnt in the group of 'illegal drugs'...its a plant, that is not 'cut' with other substances... during or after its production. It does not lead people to other drugs...people would take the other drugs regardless of cannabis...ive smoked for decades, and not taken anything else other than nurofen for headaches. There are laws in place for driving under the influence, and believe there is also some sort of movement for a police device that would show cannabis consumption. Its not good for you, nothing going into the lungs is good for you, but I dont think it deserves to be in a group of items, that include, heroin, cocaine etc.....plus of course, the war on drugs was never going to be 'won' anyway.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

Ask any MS sufferer the effects of smoking cannabis, its the only thing to give any relief from some of the symptoms for a short time. Far safer than a concoction of prescription drugs

And HIV sufferers or anyone else that suffers chronic pain.

Prohibition hasn't and will never work, it's just a massive waste of money and resources.

 

[StonehamPark]

Legalisation, regulation and taxation suits everyone, buyer, seller and authority. I don't understand why it hasn't already been done.

 

[W.C.]

No the No brainer is the goverment or an agency on their behalf in control....

Do you think they will be selling (which is kind of what we are saying) premier A grade stuff ? Do you think they might water it down perhaps ? Do you think there maybe just a chance the drug lords might make a stonger cheaper product.... ? Think this through please we have legal spirits being copied and sold on the streets today which killed something like 20 odd people in Prague a few months ago..... I surely have a point !

ok, but surely legalisation would make the drugs market much less attractive to gangs?

 

[GreersElbow]

I find that very easy to disagree with- look at the diamond industry, selling diamonds is perfectly legal, yet there is still violence all around the world involved in the illegal mining and production of diamonds from conflict zones.

Even full domestic legalisation at the point of sale is not a silver bullet.

Rather than drug lords there would be businessman, entrepreneurs and investors - all operating under strict regulations and paying tax. Rather than competing with gangs, guns and knives they would be competing legally with business. Drugs related violence is physical and leads to countless deaths all over the world and would disappear as soon as you no longer need to be a gangster or criminal to sell this product... the third biggest industy in the world

I'll point you to what yxee just said.

 

[half time scores]

We have a model of how an illegal drug can be legalised and controls set up to ensure that the social consequences are minimalised.
The number of people that died from using this illegal drug fell dramatically when the manufacture and distribution was legalised.
People could then purchased this drug and used it knowing that with normal use it was not going to kill them.
The gangs that profited from the production had no market for their wares, the government saved money on the war against these gangs and increased their revenue though taxes.
The model I am talking about happened in the USA during the 1920's. The prohibition of alcohol.

 

[Dub-67]

If I decide to take a drug its a crime.. but who is the victim?

The only victim I can see in this is me !

So unless I want to arrest myself and bring charges against myself, who else has the right to tell me what I put into my own body?

Its ridiculous that governments want to be able to decide what I do to myself... what the hell has it got to do with anyone else?
They should advise, regulate etc but I see it as a personal freedom issue.

Isnt it interesting that drugs are naturally occuring ? leave a pile of apples and it turns to cider.. a bucket of grapes turns to wine.. Weed.. well it grows like.. a weed.. Mgic mushrooms grow all over the place in Sussex... There might be some truth that the universe wants us all to be a bit pickled some of the time.. maybe it helps. People should chill out.. Most of the disasterous problems 'caused' by drugs are not actually caused by the drugs themselves but the fact that they are illegal and people are forced to use a black market! Its ridiculous.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

If drugs were legal, there would be no drug lords - there would be no violence. There would be no dangerous impurities.

That's utter rubbish.

If a Government does legalize a drug it might be marijuana or extacy.

If you hadn't noticed there a shit load of drugs out there that are pure evil. You really think that criminal organisations wont produce shit like ICE etc and pump that into the market to make up for lost earning on other drugs that get legalized?

Do you really think society will be better off for legalizing every single drug under the sun?

Nobody dies from smoking weed, and that's just one of many safe illegal drugs.

What an ignorant comment.

Maybe the drug doesn't kill you but the effect it can have on the human brain can.
'
I found a good friend hanging from the roof, he was a heavy cannabis user. The effect the drug had on his brain caused countless psychosis when he was smoking that shit.

To suggest it's safe is mind boggling.

This isn't a cause for the celebrities, it won't affect them personally, it's a cause for everybody even non drug takers. If drugs were legalised it would be possibly the greatest step forward humanity has made in living history. It's a travesty that it has gone on this long.

You make it sound like it's a true humanitarian issue.

It's an issue about people wanting to be hedonistic, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

We have a model of how an illegal drug can be legalised and controls set up to ensure that the social consequences are minimalised.
The number of people that died from using this illegal drug fell dramatically when the manufacture and distribution was legalised.
People could then purchased this drug and used it knowing that with normal use it was not going to kill them.
The gangs that profited from the production had no market for their wares, the government saved money on the war against these gangs and increased their revenue though taxes.
The model I am talking about happened in the USA during the 1920's. The prohibition of alcohol.

What drug?

You use the word drug but don't state which drug you are talking about.

Are you suggesting people should be able to go buy crystal meth from the Government whenever they want?

 

[Nibble]

That's utter rubbish.

If a Government does legalize a drug it might be marijuana or extacy.

If you hadn't noticed there a shit load of drugs out there that are pure evil. You really think that criminal organisations wont produce shit like ICE etc and pump that into the market to make up for lost earning on other drugs that get legalized?

Do you really think society will be better off for legalizing every single drug under the sun?




What an ignorant comment.

Maybe the drug doesn't kill you but the effect it can have on the human brain can.
'
I found a good friend hanging from the roof, he was a heavy cannabis user. The effect the drug had on his brain caused countless psychosis when he was smoking that shit.

To suggest it's safe is mind boggling.




You make it sound like it's a true humanitarian issue.

It's an issue about people wanting to be hedonistic, nothing more, nothing less.

You make some good points, I don't agreew ith all of them but the point is the current system isn't working is it? So we need to think of another way.

 

[daveinprague]

''I found a good friend hanging from the roof, he was a heavy cannabis user. The effect the drug had on his brain caused countless psychosis when he was smoking that shit'

Are you sure your friend didnt have other 'issues' ?
Its not for everybody, the same as booze isnt for everybody, but ive smoked for decades, and so has most of my family, and friends, without witnessing any psychosis issues.
Was he using anything else? Booze? other drugs etc?... Not being argumentative, more curious than anything, as its not something ive witnessed despite 20 years in a reggae soundsystem, and living in Holland for years...

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

If I decide to take a drug its a crime.. but who is the victim?

The only victim I can see in this is me !

So unless I want to arrest myself and bring charges against myself, who else has the right to tell me what I put into my own body?

Its ridiculous that governments want to be able to decide what I do to myself... what the hell has it got to do with anyone else?
They should advise, regulate etc but I see it as a personal freedom issue.

Isnt it interesting that drugs are naturally occuring ? leave a pile of apples and it turns to cider.. a bucket of grapes turns to wine.. Weed.. well it grows like.. a weed.. Mgic mushrooms grow all over the place in Sussex... There might be some truth that the universe wants us all to be a bit pickled some of the time.. maybe it helps. People should chill out.. Most of the disasterous problems 'caused' by drugs are not actually caused by the drugs themselves but the fact that they are illegal and people are forced to use a black market! Its ridiculous.

If you have a drug related health issue you expect the public health service to provide you with care for what you put in your body?

I agree you should be able to do what you want. But you should also have to take full responsibility for it and pay 100% for every cost incurred if it causes you damage or damage caused by you.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

''I found a good friend hanging from the roof, he was a heavy cannabis user. The effect the drug had on his brain caused countless psychosis when he was smoking that shit'

Are you sure your friend didnt have other 'issues' ?

Of course he did. Marijuana however can have terrible effects on people with potential mental issues. It accelerates and expands the process.

It might be safe for some people, but for other people it sets off a terrible chain of events.

When he wasn't on it, he was a different person. It's all too easy to say oh there's so much evidence to say it's safe. it's safe for some people, but for others its the start of a slippery slope that destroys them and their family.

Its not for everybody, the same as booze isnt for everybody, but ive smoked for decades, and so has most of my family, and friends, without witnessing any
psychosis issues.
Was he using anything else? Booze? other drugs etc?... Not being argumentative, more curious than anything, as its not something ive witnessed despite 20 years in a reggae soundsystem, and living in Holland for years...

It's the same as tobacco smokers, someone might say oh I've smoked for 50 years and its not done me any harm. Unfortunately for a lot of other people its killed or ruined their lives.

It's very much a game of Russian roulette it seems.

 

[half time scores]

What drug?

You use the word drug but don't state which drug you are talking about.

Are you suggesting people should be able to go buy crystal meth from the Government whenever they want?

Alcohol is the drug I am talking about.

Or do you not think that it is a drug?

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

You make some good points, I don't agreew ith all of them but the point is the current system isn't working is it? So we need to think of another way.

The question is how do you know the alternative will be better? is it a cross ones fingers and hope that people will not abuse the privilege?

Look at the issues with alcohol and how society doesn't handle that well at all. Do people really think that if you legalize drugs people are going to be any more responsible with drugs than they are with alcohol?