[Football] "Embarrassing, it’s an absolute disgrace"

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I really, REALLY, don’t like Arteta. I think it’s because I can see through him, he’s another fraud who has lucked out and will spend the next 15 years on the manager gravy chain.
Arsenal were pretty shit last night, this is perfect and classic diversion tactics. They were lucky last season and IMO they won’t finish top 4 this season, despite spending another fortune, but it will be a ref’s fault.

Well, he is an evil Mysteron.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It's more fun betting on the Championship and lower divisions now because once a goal is scored that is final. No dismay at it going to VAR and waiting......and waiting........without knowing even where the offence may have taken place?

The euphoria of a 94th minute goal for a 2-1 win cannot be taken away - even if it is Plymouth v Southampton. Or Portsmouth v Derby. An 8/1 correct score will pay out the same no matter what the level. And that is what football is all about - going ape happily deep into injury time!!!

I don't think the rubric of the game should be structured for the benefit of the gambling community.

 

[Clive Walker]

Or what about the part of the body that actually touches the ball needs to be in front of all parts of the last defender? i.e if you head it in it, the line is drawn from your head, if you touch with your left foot, it is the left foot etc.

So if no 19 scores with his left foot or touches ball with left foot he is onside? (for the sake of argument lets assume left foot is behind last man.

 

[rippleman]

So given the quality of officials is not likely to improve in the near future what do you think we should do about VAR?

1) Try sacking a couple of VAR officials who make significant mistakes. Try that first to see if the others then improve when they know they are going to get sacked if they get a major decision badly wrong ie those where the PGMOL has to issue an apology.

2) Sack Howard Webb

3) Ask PBOBE why the EPL refused to allow the semi-automatic VAR for offsides which seems to work so well in major, global tournaments and suggest he has a re-think

4) Get rid of it entirely. VAR doesn't exist in the WSL and it is a far better watch because of it

Someone pointed out earlier that rugby and cricket officials have generally played the game, very often to a very high standard. On another thread I took a sample of international cricket umpires. Invariably they had all played the game to County (or equivalent) or International standard. The problem is, top footballers aren't of the same mind to "give back" to the game in the same way top cricketers and rugby players do.

 

[SeagullsoverLondon]

View attachment 169239
So if no 19 scores with his left foot or touches ball with left foot he is onside? (for the sake of argument lets assume left foot is behind last man.

Yes, but if he touches it with his right foot he is off.
With Dunk's "goal", his left foot was well behind the rest of his body, and the last defender.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Someone pointed out earlier that rugby and cricket officials have generally played the game, very often to a very high standard. On another thread I took a sample of international cricket umpires. Invariably they had all played the game to County (or equivalent) or International standard. The problem is, top footballers aren't of the same mind to "give back" to the game in the same way top cricketers and rugby players do.

I think I'm right in saying that Joel Wilson is the only umpire on the ICC Elite Umpire list with no First Class or List A playing experience.
It's also worth bearing in mind that mostly the players who become umpires do so because their playing career is curtailed by not being good enough, injury, or a catastrophic loss of enthusiasm. Few have very long careers and then feel the need to "give back" for any moral reason.

 

[Clive Walker]

Yes, but if he touches it with his right foot he is off.
With Dunk's "goal", his left foot was well behind the rest of his body, and the last defender.

that would be impossible for a lino to call

 

[rippleman]

I think I'm right in saying that Joel Wilson is the only umpire on the ICC Elite Umpire list with no First Class or List A playing experience.
It's also worth bearing in mind that mostly the players who become umpires do so because their playing career is curtailed by not being good enough, injury, or a catastrophic loss of enthusiasm. Few have very long careers and then feel the need to "give back" for any moral reason.

Many footballers careers are ended because they are not good enough or through injury so I'm not quite sure of the point you are trying to make.

Chris Gaffeney (NZ) - List A 12 years
Rod Tucker (AUS) - 103 FC matches
Richard Illingworth (ENG) - 19 year FC career. 5 year Test career
Richard Kettleborough (ENG) - 5 year FC career
Ahsan Raza (PAK) - 7 year FC career
Michael Gough (ENG) - 5 year FC career
Kumar Dharmasena (SL) - 11 year Test career
Marais Erasmus (SA) - 9 year FC career

You could argue that they didn't have extensive playing careers but they played at the top level for long enough to know what the game is about.

 

[dazzer6666]

1) Try sacking a couple of VAR officials who make significant mistakes. Try that first to see if the others then improve when they know they are going to get sacked if they get a major decision badly wrong ie those where the PGMOL has to issue an apology.

2) Sack Howard Webb

3) Ask PBOBE why the EPL refused to allow the semi-automatic VAR for offsides which seems to work so well in major, global tournaments and suggest he has a re-think

4) Get rid of it entirely. VAR doesn't exist in the WSL and it is a far better watch because of it

Someone pointed out earlier that rugby and cricket officials have generally played the game, very often to a very high standard. On another thread I took a sample of international cricket umpires. Invariably they had all played the game to County (or equivalent) or International standard. The problem is, top footballers aren't of the same mind to "give back" to the game in the same way top cricketers and rugby players do.

It's not difficult to see why a footballer who has played at the top level even for a short period, on maybe 50-100K+ per week would take on years of work, moving up through the reffing ranks in order to earn 50-70k a year (assuming they can get to the top) with all the crap that goes with it (and it'd be worse for an ex-player - imagine reffing in a game played by your former club's rivals for example) . Former cricketers and rugby players haven't had anything like the earnings of a typical top level footballer and needed to keep working, don't face anything like the same stresses and are (typically anyway) better equipped to become officials.

Think it used to be a requirement in FCC that only players who'd played county cricket could join the umpires panel. Not sure if this is still the case.

 

[jackanada]

Wrt the comparison with rugby and how we hear the refs conversations.
While that would be nice the thing that really seems to be missing is conversation between the on field referee and the VAR.
All we have is the VAR alerting the ref of the "clear and obvious" error and lengthy offside checks.
Surely the ref should be talking to VAR saying such things as "didn't get a good view check for possible red card" or "can we have a look at a possible foul before the cross came in.
Instead we get this bullshit situation where not only are the refs afraid to make a decision and rely on VAR to bail them out but VAR don't want to reverse an on field decision which the referee has only made by default.

 

[Questions]

Supporters from every club should by now be sick to the death of VAR and 100% it's time for a good old fashion nationwide protest,I'm going to glue myself to a pub chair until VAR is dead.

Well you don’t get to the bar very often if I remember

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

It's not difficult to see why a footballer who has played at the top level even for a short period, on maybe 50-100K+ per week would take on years of work, moving up through the reffing ranks in order to earn 50-70k a year (assuming they can get to the top) with all the crap that goes with it (and it'd be worse for an ex-player - imagine reffing in a game played by your former club's rivals for example) . Former cricketers and rugby players haven't had anything like the earnings of a typical top level footballer and needed to keep working, don't face anything like the same stresses and are (typically anyway) better equipped to become officials.

Think it used to be a requirement in FCC that only players who'd played county cricket could join the umpires panel. Not sure if this is still the case.

Sue Redfern is on the umpires panel, so the qualification can't still be based on playing county cricket.

 

[KZNSeagull]

It's not difficult to see why a footballer who has played at the top level even for a short period, on maybe 50-100K+ per week would take on years of work, moving up through the reffing ranks in order to earn 50-70k a year (assuming they can get to the top) with all the crap that goes with it (and it'd be worse for an ex-player - imagine reffing in a game played by your former club's rivals for example) . Former cricketers and rugby players haven't had anything like the earnings of a typical top level footballer and needed to keep working, don't face anything like the same stresses and are (typically anyway) better equipped to become officials.

Think it used to be a requirement in FCC that only players who'd played county cricket could join the umpires panel. Not sure if this is still the case.

Plus umpires get loads of free cake and sandwiches.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Many footballers careers are ended because they are not good enough or through injury so I'm not quite sure of the point you are trying to make.

Chris Gaffeney (NZ) - List A 12 years
Rod Tucker (AUS) - 103 FC matches
Richard Illingworth (ENG) - 19 year FC career. 5 year Test career
Richard Kettleborough (ENG) - 5 year FC career
Ahsan Raza (PAK) - 7 year FC career
Michael Gough (ENG) - 5 year FC career
Kumar Dharmasena (SL) - 11 year Test career
Marais Erasmus (SA) - 9 year FC career

You could argue that they didn't have extensive playing careers but they played at the top level for long enough to know what the game is about.

Not every post people write has a clear underlying point.
For a start I was agreeing with you on most umpires having professional experience.
Thereafter I was responding to this bit in your previous post:

The problem is, top footballers aren't of the same mind to "give back" to the game in the same way top cricketers and rugby players do.

Dazzer6666 largely made this point for me. The incentive for a former "top footballer" to bother becoming a ref is much smaller than it is for a former professional cricketer. It's not much to do with how charitably minded they are.
I'd also guess that it's much easier for a cricketer who's no longer fit enough to play to umpire (a job that largely involves standing still while holding somebody's hat and jumper), than it is a footballer to become a referee after suffering a career ending injury.

 

[BluesRockDJ]

Large fine incoming….

Will they use VAR to disect his statement ??

 

[BluesRockDJ]

Why not have what they have in cricket, the captain on either side can make 3 reviews, after that VAR can shut up shop and go home ?

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

Anyone else feel like we got away with one when Hojlund scored against us at Old Trafford before it was ruled out? At the time I was certain it’d stand due to the circumference of the ball being on the line as we saw with Mitoma at the World Cup. Very similar to the Newcastle goal yesterday.

It’s the only dodgy VAR call I can remember going our way.

 

[KZNSeagull]

MIchael Bridges on Look North has just described Arteta's comments as embarrassing and a disgrace. Not biased at all then.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Anyone else feel like we got away with one when Hojlund scored against us at Old Trafford before it was ruled out? At the time I was certain it’d stand due to the circumference of the ball being on the line as we saw with Mitoma at the World Cup. Very similar to the Newcastle goal yesterday.

It’s the only dodgy VAR call I can remember going our way.

It wasn't dodgy.
They had a a camera angle nearly perfectly in line with the goal line, showing it was out.

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

It wasn't dodgy.
They had a a camera angle nearly perfectly in line with the goal line, showing it was out.

I don’t remember that. Have you got a link or picture?