[Misc] Electric Cars

[Audax]

Of course, a lot of petrol car families (and presumably electric car drivers) have two people who can drive. They may want to take the breaks asleep in the passenger seat.

Sure. But I'd argue that the change-over should still involve a recovery break of some sort, because even just sitting in the passenger seat for lengthy periods of time can introduce fatigue. While it sounds counter-intuitive, being sat still for prolonged periods of time doesn't mean you are fresh and ready to go. You'll still need to get yourself moving, get blood flow moving, make sure you're alert and mentally switched on, give your butt a chance to not feel like you've been sat on it for 2+ hours etc etc.

 

[Randy McNob]

There is a danger of massive depreciation on electric cars, but not because of battery degradation. The danger is that the technology will improve so much that the vehicle you buy now is worth pennies in three or four years' time because (for example) range may have trebled or charging times made equivalent to petrol cars.

On the subject of range, you have to consider the range at will diminish over the years, so for example a standard Tesla Model 3 would do around 250 miles on a full battery, after 3-4 years it will do 80-90% of that, so perhaps only 200 miles, and supercharging is not good for the battery, so over the long term a better range could pay off?

 

[chickens]

On the subject of range, you have to consider the range at will diminish over the years, so for example a standard Tesla Model 3 would do around 250 miles on a full battery, after 3-4 years it will do 80-90% of that, so perhaps only 200 miles, and supercharging is not good for the battery, so over the long term a better range could pay off?

The evidence now suggests that while there is some drop-off in range, most happens in the first year of vehicle ownership and then stabilises.

It’s not really a significant factor unless you’re buying early examples of the Nissan Leaf or Renault Zoe, Jaguar iPace or something with a really small battery (looking at the Dacia Spring here)

https://insideevs.com/news/748501/ev-degradation-study-rsev/

Even vehicles that have done high mileages (company cruisers doing lots of fast charging) still had 90% capacity at 200,000 miles of mileage.

The vehicles dragging the average down in the study linked to above are vehicles no longer on sale. As always happens, engineers have figured out how to minimize this happening.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

On the subject of range, you have to consider the range at will diminish over the years, so for example a standard Tesla Model 3 would do around 250 miles on a full battery, after 3-4 years it will do 80-90% of that, so perhaps only 200 miles, and supercharging is not good for the battery, so over the long term a better range could pay off?

Tesla touted around a much older Model S last summer and the drop-off was nowhere near 10-20% of the battery. There's no way that after just four years, you'd lose 10, let alone 20%.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

The evidence now suggests that while there is some drop-off in range, most happens in the first year of vehicle ownership and then stabilises.

It’s not really a significant factor unless you’re buying early examples of the Nissan Leaf or Renault Zoe, Jaguar iPace or something with a really small battery (looking at the Dacia Spring here)

https://insideevs.com/news/748501/ev-degradation-study-rsev/

Even vehicles that have done high mileages (company cruisers doing lots of fast charging) still had 90% capacity at 200,000 miles of mileage.

The vehicles dragging the average down in the study linked to above are vehicles no longer on sale. As always happens, engineers have figured out how to minimize this happening.

Exactly. The EV industry is still in its infancy, relatively speaking. Technology – vehicle and battery – has moved on, which means many of the concerns that people had when they first came out are obsolete. But a lot of anti-EV people still peddle these myths.

Instead of huge numbers of mega range EVs, I think the market will see more smaller models, with smaller batteries and therefore less range – such as this announced by Volkswagen recently. Not only is it cheaper, but it's lighter and appeals to a different target audience. The C-SUV sector is SWAMPED with new EVs and that followed luxury models fitted with batteries.

 

[Half Time Pies]

There is a danger of massive depreciation on electric cars, but not because of battery degradation. The danger is that the technology will improve so much that the vehicle you buy now is worth pennies in three or four years' time because (for example) range may have trebled or charging times made equivalent to petrol cars.

I think it's unlikely that there will be dramatic improvements in tech/ range over a 3-4 year period. Electric cars take about that time to move from concept into production, so you can get a fair idea now of where we will be in a few years time. As an example, final designs of the Model 3 were announced in 2016, hit the UK in 2019 and there has been one significant upgrade to the model since then at the end of last year. Long range AWD had a range of 310 - 360 at release, latest model is 341 - 391 so not a dramatic improvement. Once an electric vehicle range gets over 200 miles then it's sufficient for most people. I think the biggest shift will be when self driving comes in but it looks like that is someway off at this point.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Well I've decided to go for it. Nearly all my mileage is driving from Mid Sussex to Worthing and back, which is easily doable several times on a single charge. As opposed to the £130 or so I probably spend on petrol currently each month.

If I have to plan my away trips to incorporate a 20 minute coffee break at a service station, it's not going to make a lot of difference as I'd mostly do that anyway. Stopped twice last week en route back from Newcastle, as six hours is a long old drive.
Home charger being installed next week: new car the day after

 

[The Sock of Poskett]

Well I've decided to go for it. Nearly all my mileage is driving from Mid Sussex to Worthing and back, which is easily doable several times on a single charge. As opposed to the £130 or so I probably spend on petrol currently each month.

If I have to plan my away trips to incorporate a 20 minute coffee break at a service station, it's not going to make a lot of difference as I'd mostly do that anyway. Stopped twice last week en route back from Newcastle, as six hours is a long old drive.
Home charger being installed next week: new car the day after

Which EV have you gone for? We went halfway house a year ago and got a Toyota Yaris hybrid, and have been delighted with it. While clearly not as green as an EV, it gives us close to 70mpg and suits us down to the ground (we do less than 6k miles each year, so can't really justify the hefty cost of a new EV).

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Which EV have you gone for? We went halfway house a year ago and got a Toyota Yaris hybrid, and have been delighted with it. While clearly not as green as an EV, it gives us close to 70mpg and suits us down to the ground (we do less than 6k miles each year, so can't really justify the hefty cost of a new EV).

Ford Explorer, the extended range version. I've got a Ford anyway so they were practically begging me to stay with them and offering me plenty of incentives. Reviews look fine, range is decent and it's based on the same platform as the VW ID4, so should be fine. I don't need high performance or something that drives like a Ferrari: I'm just going to work and back, to Albion games, or to the shops. I do about 12,000 miles a year I think (an estimate: I moved jobs midway through last year and have to travel further than before so I haven't really worked out what a whole year's mileage looks like yet).

 

[happypig]

Which EV have you gone for? We went halfway house a year ago and got a Toyota Yaris hybrid, and have been delighted with it. While clearly not as green as an EV, it gives us close to 70mpg and suits us down to the ground (we do less than 6k miles each year, so can't really justify the hefty cost of a new EV).

Glad you like it. I had a Yaris Hybrid and would easily put it in the top 3 worst cars I've owned.

 

[Perfidious Albion]

My Yaris ( petrol) was brilliant . So much that I kept it for years and years until it finally went to the scrap yard aged 21.

 

[maresfield seagull]

Not read the entire thread So apologies if mentioned previously How much heavier are these EV s in comparison to ICE motors ? If there is a significant increase Has there been any thought into increased wear and tear on the already very poor road surfaces we have to endure in this country?

 

[Randy McNob]

Well I've decided to go for it. Nearly all my mileage is driving from Mid Sussex to Worthing and back, which is easily doable several times on a single charge. As opposed to the £130 or so I probably spend on petrol currently each month.

If I have to plan my away trips to incorporate a 20 minute coffee break at a service station, it's not going to make a lot of difference as I'd mostly do that anyway. Stopped twice last week en route back from Newcastle, as six hours is a long old drive.
Home charger being installed next week: new car the day after

The other trick is to find a good charging station that has, at least, some facilities. Tesla Supercharger stations are mostly in hotel car parks or industrial estates with no toilet facilities or shops nearby

 

[Greg Bobkin]

The other trick is to find a good charging station that has, at least, some facilities. Tesla Supercharger stations are mostly in hotel car parks or industrial estates with no toilet facilities or shops nearby

To be fair, that's probably because you don't tend to spend that long there. The charging capability/speed of Teslas is probably the best thing about the cars.

Gridserve sites are always pretty reliable - and the services at its electric forecourts are superb.

 

[chickens]

Not read the entire thread So apologies if mentioned previously How much heavier are these EV s in comparison to ICE motors ? If there is a significant increase Has there been any thought into increased wear and tear on the already very poor road surfaces we have to endure in this country?

To begin with EVs were considerably heavier, but weight is the enemy of efficiency, so there’s a lot of work going into reducing the weight of the battery packs, as that means you can travel further on a smaller battery.

So, yes, EVs are (marginally) heavier (10-15% range) than their combustion engine equivalents, but there’s not a huge amount in it. Expect the gap to shrink (and disappear) over time, as lighter/more efficient battery chemistries reach production.

There’s a lot of innovation in batteries atm, but because new battery chemistries require retooling of production lines, there’s a delay as the technology that can actually build these new chemistries in production line quantities are developed and tested.

TLDR - EVs are slightly heavier than combustion engine vehicles right now, they won’t be in a decade. It would be a bit mad to blame EVs for roads requiring resurfacing, a small EV still weighs a lot less than a big combustion engine vehicle. It’s much more about not driving a vehicle that’s much bigger than you actually need, regardless of how it’s powered.

 

[Audax]

I forget where I found it, but there's been at least one study done that said EV impact on roads is negligible. Far far more problematic are trucks and heavy vans when loaded.

 

[Greavsey]

Another EV convert here coming in peace... new car is arriving in April. It may have already been mentioned on this thread but does anyone have any recommendations re the installation of a home charger?

I spoke to our usual electrician who said he didn't do them as didn't have the right testing kit, and he said most sparkies he's spoken to are saying it's not worth their while as Octopus are undercutting everyone. From what I can tell from their website they are charging around £400 for installation. Doesn't seem that low to me! But is this about right? If not has anyone got any other recommendations? Looking at an Hypervolt charger based on online reviews...

 

[Fungus]

Another EV convert here coming in peace... new car is arriving in April. It may have already been mentioned on this thread but does anyone have any recommendations re the installation of a home charger?

I spoke to our usual electrician who said he didn't do them as didn't have the right testing kit, and he said most sparkies he's spoken to are saying it's not worth their while as Octopus are undercutting everyone. From what I can tell from their website they are charging around £400 for installation. Doesn't seem that low to me! But is this about right? If not has anyone got any other recommendations? Looking at an Hypervolt charger based on online reviews...

Zappi, Ohme and Hypervolt all get good reviews, though several mention problems with Hypervolt if their servers are offline (might be resolved with the latest version). Choose one that’s compatible with your energy supplier. Installation costs will vary depending on your site - our electrician had to run a cable all the way around our house, which was quite expensive!
Edit: we (now) have a Zappi, and are with Octopus.

 

[Bry Nylon]

The other trick is to find a good charging station that has, at least, some facilities. Tesla Supercharger stations are mostly in hotel car parks or industrial estates with no toilet facilities or shops nearby

How true. I rarely use Supercharger stations, but the two I do use are next to (i) a Waitrose or alternatively (ii) the one at the Welcome Break services on the M11. Whilst the car is charging I frequently wander into either the Waitrose or the Services and ask if anybody knows of anywhere nearby where I could buy a coffee and possibly something to eat.

No luck so far, so I'll just keep making sure I've got some sandwiches and a Bear Grylls book with me whenever I'm below 50% range.

 

[chickens]

How true. I rarely use Supercharger stations, but the two I do use are next to (i) a Waitrose or alternatively (ii) the one at the Welcome Break services on the M11. Whilst the car is charging I frequently wander into either the Waitrose or the Services and ask if anybody knows of anywhere nearby where I could buy a coffee and possibly something to eat.

No luck so far, so I'll just keep making sure I've got some sandwiches and a Bear Grylls book with me whenever I'm below 50% range.

Yeah, watching EV owners getting out of their cars in just a loincloth and then getting their spear out the boot is one of the highlights of people-watching at most motorway services.