[Misc] Electric Cars

[Billy the Fish]

Corrected. £12.90 and it gave us an 85% charge from 15%. To be honest I thought that cheap as filling a car would be a lot more. It's only a Zoe.

Sounds more like it!

So the next step is to calculate a rough pence per mile. Max range for the Zoe is 190 (it'll be less but we'll take them on face value) of which 70% is 133.

So approx. £12.90 for 133 miles is almost bang on 10p a mile, which is exactly what I used to get in my A3 Diesel when it was £1.50p a litre!


I'm not trying to put a downer on electric cars. I lease one and I like it, but I do find it annoying how people try to gloss over or be dismissive of the drawbacks, whether that's stating £8 for a full tank in a service station or driving 5000 miles on public chargers for £250 by driving up and down mountains.

I'm also not implying that you're being misleading, I just think your mate has told you a headline figure that sounds really good and you've taken it at face value without really delving into the figures.

Another thing people keep skirting over is charging time. NSC's demographic means that most people on this thread have all the time in the world to have a coffee and read the Guardian or Morning Star for 40 minutes while the car charges but I promise that when you've got a 4 year old and 2 year old in the back, being stuck in a service station on a freezing cold night isn't much fun. And that only happened because the only viable charger near where I was staying, was broken.

 

[Driver8]

This will give you an idea of the petrol/electric cost comparison.

I’ve probably done 12,000 or so miles in the last year. My supercharger visits are almost entirely for trips to home games (hence none in June/July!).

 

[Audax]

Max range for the Zoe is 190 (it'll be less but we'll take them on face value) of which 70% is 133.

Guessing that came from a site such as https://ev-database.org/uk/car/1205/Renault-Zoe-ZE50-R135#range ? In winter, sure (probably even less depending on exactly how cold - I can get you an estimate next week). In summer, it's plenty more than that. The advertised 240ish mile range that Renault claims is pretty much bang on, and in the right conditions and right traffic flow I've been able to get the equivalent of 270+ (over a 65 mile drive including M25 and A22).

Zoe has a 52 kWh battery (50 usable in reality). In summer achieving 4.8-5.0 mpkWh isn't difficult. I achieved 5.4-5.6 on a regular basis last summer.

Of course, it all comes down to driving style and comfort settings. Except on dual carriage, I keep my Zoe in Eco mode. And I've learned my way around the "one foot" driving technique (which, I accept, most drivers on UK roads won't - because it requires leaving a decent gap to the car in front, and we all know how much a UK driver loves to tailgate). As for comfort settings - I drive with the A/C on at all times. I just leave it set to 20 all year round. My Mrs, on the other hand, fiddles with it. Jumped in the other day and she'd left it set to 24, and the dash was reporting 2.9 mpkWh . But she only does short trips - when I do my long commute to the office, the range always picks back up again.

 

[Official Old Man]

Sounds more like it!

So the next step is to calculate a rough pence per mile. Max range for the Zoe is 190 (it'll be less but we'll take them on face value) of which 70% is 133.

So approx. £12.90 for 133 miles is almost bang on 10p a mile, which is exactly what I used to get in my A3 Diesel when it was £1.50p a litre!


I'm not trying to put a downer on electric cars. I lease one and I like it, but I do find it annoying how people try to gloss over or be dismissive of the drawbacks, whether that's stating £8 for a full tank in a service station or driving 5000 miles on public chargers for £250 by driving up and down mountains.

I'm also not implying that you're being misleading, I just think your mate has told you a headline figure that sounds really good and you've taken it at face value without really delving into the figures.

Another thing people keep skirting over is charging time. NSC's demographic means that most people on this thread have all the time in the world to have a coffee and read the Guardian or Morning Star for 40 minutes while the car charges but I promise that when you've got a 4 year old and 2 year old in the back, being stuck in a service station on a freezing cold night isn't much fun. And that only happened because the only viable charger near where I was staying, was broken.

I'm not an electric car person, mainly because I tend to do long journeys of 300 miles or more. But as a couple of old geezers, we use his EV for 'short' journeys ie London as it's free within ULEZ, but my Land Rover for longer games, ie Liverpool, purely for the comfort.
Cost is about double for the Land Rover in that Stoke was £77 return for 430 miles. That would have needed 2 stops of at least an hour I guess for the EV.
Like I've said, Leicester has taken some planning but Marstons Pubs have charging points.

 

[Bozza]

The new Tesla Model 3 looks quite a decent upgrade.

Have you had a go yet @Greg Bobkin? Has it/will it change your view on Teslas at all?

 

[Greg Bobkin]

The new Tesla Model 3 looks quite a decent upgrade.

Have you had a go yet @Greg Bobkin? Has it/will it change your view on Teslas at all?

I've not, no. So I'll reserve judgement, with a prediction that I doubt it will change my opinion that much, purely becuase everything still runs through that central screen, which is just a complete ballache (for me, anyway – maybe I'm just old). Volvo has adopted a similar thing with the EX30, which just ruins it, for me – because despite that, it's a bloody good car.

I did drive the Volkswagen ID.7 today (prices start from £51k), which is easily the best ID model that Volkswagen has made. More physical buttons, great HMI, up to 384 miles (claimed) and really well put together. Estate version coming in Q3 2024, apparently.

 

[Audax]

I've learned my way around the "one foot" driving technique

I of course meant to say "one pedal", not one foot .

probably even less depending on exactly how cold - I can get you an estimate next week

Trip got pushed back. Did my A22, M25, M4, Stockley Rd commute from Uckfield to Uxbridge this morning. Reset the trip and left home with 6 deg C on the dash, most of trip done with 5 showing, dropped to 3 coming into Uxbridge. 64 miles total driven, pulled into the office carpark showing 4.5 miles per kWh achieved. That's 225 mile range if sustained over entire battery capacity. Will be interesting to see what the return journey achieves - it's normally better. In summer I can hit 5.5, 5.6.

Would obviously be less if it was colder. 5/6 celsius is still warm enough for the B mode to be fully active, which wouldn't be the case if temps were closer to (or under) 0. There's signs that end of Feb could be colder, if it is I might see if I can find an excuse to do the office run again then to get a good comparison.

For those who know the A22 heading north, it's a good demonstration of how the landscape you're driving through affects range. From Uckfield through to Wych Cross (a high point), the mileage was 2.9. By the time I got to the bottom of the hill in Forest Row it had climbed to 3.7. Dipped again to 3.5 after climbing out of FR into East Grinstead. By the time I came out of East Grinstead, it was over 4 and stayed over 4 the rest of the way. 4.2 by the time I joined the M25, and then 4.5 by the time I got to the office.

By comparison, before I reset it it had been showing 2.9 off the back of several weeks doing nothing but short runs (school run, grocery run into Lewes, etc). In summer that would be 4+.

 

[Official Old Man]

Sounds more like it!

So the next step is to calculate a rough pence per mile. Max range for the Zoe is 190 (it'll be less but we'll take them on face value) of which 70% is 133.

So approx. £12.90 for 133 miles is almost bang on 10p a mile, which is exactly what I used to get in my A3 Diesel when it was £1.50p a litre!


I'm not trying to put a downer on electric cars. I lease one and I like it, but I do find it annoying how people try to gloss over or be dismissive of the drawbacks, whether that's stating £8 for a full tank in a service station or driving 5000 miles on public chargers for £250 by driving up and down mountains.

I'm also not implying that you're being misleading, I just think your mate has told you a headline figure that sounds really good and you've taken it at face value without really delving into the figures.

Another thing people keep skirting over is charging time. NSC's demographic means that most people on this thread have all the time in the world to have a coffee and read the Guardian or Morning Star for 40 minutes while the car charges but I promise that when you've got a 4 year old and 2 year old in the back, being stuck in a service station on a freezing cold night isn't much fun. And that only happened because the only viable charger near where I was staying, was broken.

Here are the results for our trip to Sheffield via electric Zoe verses our trip to Stoke in my 2 litre Land Rover. Stoke 212 miles & Sheffield 224. Mostly motorway and both journeys were trouble free with no holdups. Both started with full tanks/charges.
These costs including food are for two people.

Stoke.
1 stop for a coffee up and McDonalds back. Didn't need to refuel. Fuel £76 at £1.49 litre filled up on return to split the cost.
Could have done the trip with no stops.

Sheffield
1 stop going up. As we needed a full charge stopped at a Marstons pub just off the M1. Charge £31.47 I'm sure at 144 mile distance from start this was a rip off.
2 stops coming back, both motorway. 1st stop £30.49 which was 160 miles from stop going up and then £23.98 which was 120 miles mark.

To sum up. Stoke, in a bigger more comfortable car, cost £76 plus £35 beverages average £55.50 pp.
Sheffield, in a small car, cost £85.94 (batteries not full at end of journey) plus £70 beverages which included a full meal at £15 pp. Average £78.
Other than London and the ULEZ where the electric car is free, it will be gas guzzling Land Rover for those long journeys now.

 

[nicko31]

I've not, no. So I'll reserve judgement, with a prediction that I doubt it will change my opinion that much, purely becuase everything still runs through that central screen, which is just a complete ballache (for me, anyway – maybe I'm just old). Volvo has adopted a similar thing with the EX30, which just ruins it, for me – because despite that, it's a bloody good car.

I did drive the Volkswagen ID.7 today (prices start from £51k), which is easily the best ID model that Volkswagen has made. More physical buttons, great HMI, up to 384 miles (claimed) and really well put together. Estate version coming in Q3 2024, apparently.

I have an ID3, its let down by a poor HMI, clearly taken note. Great to see range is improving on the bigger cars. I have 355 mile range, but the small boot does restrict things

 

[Audax]

Here are the results for our trip to Sheffield via electric Zoe verses our trip to Stoke in my 2 litre Land Rover. Stoke 212 miles & Sheffield 224. Mostly motorway and both journeys were trouble free with no holdups. Both started with full tanks/charges.
These costs including food are for two people.

Stoke.
1 stop for a coffee up and McDonalds back. Didn't need to refuel. Fuel £76 at £1.49 litre filled up on return to split the cost.
Could have done the trip with no stops.

Sheffield
1 stop going up. As we needed a full charge stopped at a Marstons pub just off the M1. Charge £31.47 I'm sure at 144 mile distance from start this was a rip off.
2 stops coming back, both motorway. 1st stop £30.49 which was 160 miles from stop going up and then £23.98 which was 120 miles mark.

To sum up. Stoke, in a bigger more comfortable car, cost £76 plus £35 beverages average £55.50 pp.
Sheffield, in a small car, cost £85.94 (batteries not full at end of journey) plus £70 beverages which included a full meal at £15 pp. Average £78.
Other than London and the ULEZ where the electric car is free, it will be gas guzzling Land Rover for those long journeys now.

Would cost a bit of time, but with adequate pre-planning it should be possible to significantly reduce those EV topup costs.

 

[Official Old Man]

Would cost a bit of time, but with adequate pre-planning it should be possible to significantly reduce those EV topup costs.

How? I thought using the Marston's Pub charging would be cheap but still over 20p mile.

 

[Flounce]

Just when you thought EVs couldn’t get any uglier along come Tesla with this

 

[Bry Nylon]

How? I thought using the Marston's Pub charging would be cheap but still over 20p mile.

I’d definitely avoid using charging facilities that have been installed by a pub / restaurant / shop etc as they generally come at a premium.

A couple of pubs round here having EV charging stalls and the only people I know who use them are people who can claim the cost back through their employer for business mileage.

 

[The Grockle]

Another option for charging is to join your providers shared network. We've not used anyone else's yet but have allowed someone to access ours once a month as they cant install one at their terraced home, we just send a screenshot of the cost and they paypal us the money. Wouldn't work for everyone but we have a big drive and hopeful someone will return the favour when we head to Burnley in April.

 

[chickens]

I’m finding that the fast charging spots in my neck of the woods have suddenly decided to standardize on 79p per kilowatt, which is denting my enthusiasm for my otherwise extremely practical Nissan Leaf.

If I could charge from home I’d be paying 3.5p per kilowatt, so my feeling is that the piss is absolutely being taken. If I don’t see a drop soon I will be returning to something with a mild hybrid engine, despite the fact that I otherwise really enjoy EV ownership.

I’d return to EV ownership like a shot if I had a driveway though. The economics when home charging are unassailable.

 

[beorhthelm]

I’m finding that the fast charging spots in my neck of the woods have suddenly decided to standardize on 79p per kilowatt, which is denting my enthusiasm for my otherwise extremely practical Nissan Leaf.

If I could charge from home I’d be paying 3.5p per kilowatt, so my feeling is that the piss is absolutely being taken. If I don’t see a drop soon I will be returning to something with a mild hybrid engine, despite the fact that I otherwise really enjoy EV ownership.

I’d return to EV ownership like a shot if I had a driveway though. The economics when home charging are unassailable.

that's about twice more than petrol

 

[carlzeiss]

that's about twice more than petrol

A labour government will fix that .

 

[chickens]

that's about twice more than petrol

I don’t think it’s been quite that drastic, but possibly not too far off.

I’ve recently been charging the Leaf at £12 a working day, which is putting 15kilowatt back in the battery (and assuming 22 working days in a month) will work out at £264pcm)

If I could charge at home the cost would be something more around £25pcm, or £1.13 per charge which demonstrates just how cheap running an electric car can be if you can charge at home (and have an EV with a small battery)

Previously my diesel Merc was (from memory) costing £90 to brim a 62 litre tank, and I was doing that every ten days.

That was however covering my weekend driving too, whereas now if I’m doing a long trip in the Leaf I can charge twice in a day sometimes at the weekend, but don’t necessarily do long trips every day of the weekend.

As you can see, having home charging makes all the difference, with fast chargers priced to absolutely take the mickey, and only be used as a last resort. If they keep pricing like this, EVs are absolutely NOT for those who can’t charge at home.

 

[JamieR]

Range needs to improve before I consider it as I dont use the car much but when I do its generally 3-500 mile round trips. I can get 700 miles out of a tank on my Octavia and I don't want / can't be arsed to plan my longer journeys like a military operation so I get the required charging stations.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

I make no excuse for the self-promotion, but this story went live this morning. Scroll down to see that five out of seven category winners are EVs. Clearly there are challenges, but 29 industry experts (and me!) seem to agree that the vehicles themselves are moving in the right direction.

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