Electoral reform needed now

[Withdean11]

The current system prevented the National Front and the BNP from achieving parliamentary representation.

Just because there are nutters spread all over the country, it doesn't mean they have to be represented in our executive and legislative bodies.

What a pathetic attitude you have. So over 3 million people do not deserve to be represented?

 

[Simster]

The current system prevented the National Front and the BNP from achieving parliamentary representation.

Just because there are nutters spread all over the country, it doesn't mean they have to be represented in our executive and legislative bodies.

Why not? That's democracy.

 

[leo.eyles]

More than 1m seats for Greens for 1 seat also. We do need reform. Cameron has spent his first term spinning. I hope he decides on a more statesmanlike approach now and can leave a positive legacy on this regard. But im not very hopeful.

 

[Simster]

Simple, they weren't backed by Murdoch.

The Sun in England said vote Tories, the Sun in Scotland said vote SNP.

Don't underestimate his influence, he basically ran their campaigns for them.

Yawn. Murdoch has been here for 3 decades or something. We all know he influences politics, and yet Labour STILL elected "Red Ed" as their leader, and allowed arrogant Ed Balls a high profile as his sidekick.

 

[Stat Brother]

Agreed. Our current system is flawed, but the alternatives are likely to create pork barrel politics.

We knew the voting system when we went to the polls yesterday, and it now appears there is a party with a majority, so they have a mandate. Let them get on with it.

But they only have the support of less than 40% of the electorate.

My 1 vote in the Tory stronghold Worthing West has a 'value' of 0.112 votes.

The Conservatives have a mandate to lead by virtue of the voting in 10 or 20 seats out of 650.
That hardly seems fair.

 

[Rookie]

Simple, they weren't backed by Murdoch.

The Sun in England said vote Tories, the Sun in Scotland said vote SNP.

Don't underestimate his influence, he basically ran their campaigns for them.

Nothing to do with an incompetent opposition then?

 

[El Presidente]

But they only have to support of less than 40% of the electorate.

My 1 vote in the Tory stronghold Worthing West has a 'value' of 0.112 votes.

The Conservatives have a mandate to lead by virtue of the voting in 10 or 20 seats out of 650.
That hardly seems fair.

There hasn't been a party with a greater than 50% share of the vote in our lifetimes.

There's no evidence that countries with different electoral systems perform better socially or economically than we do.

Since 1945 there have been 61 governments in Italy, which has a PR system. That can't be good for policy making to have a government with an average shelf life of 15 months. It results in short-termism, and political leaders spend more time horse trading with their political partners, many of whom are from extremist parties, than they do actually governing the country.

I'm no fan of the Tories, but they convinced the highest number of people in the highest number of constituencies to vote for them. No one forced us to do that.

 

[Titanic]

I can think of 422 very good reasons why FPTP is the most direct and powerful system for us to use when electing our political representatives.

 

[Stat Brother]

There hasn't been a party with a greater than 50% share of the vote in our lifetimes.

There's no evidence that countries with different electoral systems perform better socially or economically than we do.

Since 1945 there have been 61 governments in Italy, which has a PR system. That can't be good for policy making to have a government with an average shelf life of 15 months. It results in short-termism, and political leaders spend more time horse trading with their political partners, many of whom are from extremist parties, than they do actually governing the country.

I'm no fan of the Tories, but they convinced the highest number of people in the highest number of constituencies to vote for them. No one forced us to do that.

Sure.

PR is as flawed as FPTP.

There has to be other alternatives or hybrid versions that are more representative.

Currently:-
Conservative 10,713,972 votes - 315 seats
Ukip 3,668,176 votes - 1 seat
Green 1,102,088 votes - 1 seat.

 

[KZNSeagull]

What proportional representation would look like based on current results:

Conservatives 237
Labour 200
UKIP 81
Lib Dem 51
SNP 32
Green 25

Who would choose which people gets a seat? The party? Ed Balls would be number 2 on the Labour list, yet he has been kicked out by his constituents.

FPTP is flawed, but people HAVE to know who they are voting for. A person, not a party.

 

[Simster]

There hasn't been a party with a greater than 50% share of the vote in our lifetimes.

There's no evidence that countries with different electoral systems perform better socially or economically than we do.

Since 1945 there have been 61 governments in Italy, which has a PR system. That can't be good for policy making to have a government with an average shelf life of 15 months. It results in short-termism, and political leaders spend more time horse trading with their political partners, many of whom are from extremist parties, than they do actually governing the country.

I'm no fan of the Tories, but they convinced the highest number of people in the highest number of constituencies to vote for them. No one forced us to do that.

No-one is saying this result is not legitimate, but there are serious issues surround FPTP. The current system means real change is virtually impossible. Anything that would be an improvement on people's lives that is not in the interest of the Conservative and Labour parties will NEVER happen.

Who would choose which people gets a seat? The party? Ed Balls would be number 2 on the Labour list, yet he has been kicked out by his constituents.

FPTP is flawed, but people HAVE to know who they are voting for. A person, not a party.

I always think this is a straw man argument for the simple reason that if they wish, Labour will just parachute in Ed Balls next time there is a by-election for a safe Labour seat.

 

[El Presidente]

Sure.

PR is as flawed as FPTP.

There has to be other alternatives or hybrid versions that are more representative.

There are, and we had a referendum in 2011 and decided to not go for them.

 

[Notters]

Who would choose which people gets a seat? The party? Ed Balls would be number 2 on the Labour list, yet he has been kicked out by his constituents.

FPTP is flawed, but people HAVE to know who they are voting for. A person, not a party.

I personally agree with this but it doesn't work in our current system of party-dominated politics. People say "i'm voting labour" not "I'm voting Bob Ironmonger".

 

[KZNSeagull]

I always think this is a straw man argument for the simple reason that if they wish, Labour will just parachute in Ed Balls next time there is a by-election for a safe Labour seat.

I personally agree with this but it doesn't work in our current system of party-dominated politics. People say "i'm voting labour" not "I'm voting Bob Ironmonger".

True Simster, that is a possibility.

However, remember Martin Bell vs Neil Hamilton. Hamilton would still be in parliament under PR.

I know it does not happen very often in the UK, but the mechanism is there with FPTP for the people to get rid of unpopular politicians who are still favoured by their party. That is unlikely to happen under PR.

 

[Diablo]

I personally agree with this but it doesn't work in our current system of party-dominated politics. People say "i'm voting labour" not "I'm voting Bob Ironmonger".

Not sure you are correct here.... I voted for Norman Baker not Lib Dems..as I`m sure many did..but of course not enough this time..

 

[El Presidente]

No-one is saying this result is not legitimate, but there are serious issues surround FPTP. The current system means real change is virtually impossible. Anything that would be an improvement on people's lives that is not in the interest of the Conservative and Labour parties will NEVER happen.

I agree with you entirely. But surely, if someone has a set of policies that are better than those of the Tories and Labour, why doesn't that party exist, and why hasn't it flourished?

But Scotland has shown that it is possible to have real change. Would we ever have envisaged a Labour party with one Scottish seat a couple of years ago? The SNP has been very successful in this campaign without a huge financial backing.

As for real change, what would you envisage on that? Ultimately all politicians, regardless of their political colours, are self serving, self preserving in nature, and they'll promise anything and everything if they think it will get them more votes.

 

[El Presidente]

I personally agree with this but it doesn't work in our current system of party-dominated politics. People say "i'm voting labour" not "I'm voting Bob Ironmonger".

I think in Brighton, they said, I'm voting Caroline Lucas though. Although I agree that's not always the case.

 

[mickybha]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum,_2011

 

[Notters]

I agree with you entirely. But surely, if someone has a set of policies that are better than those of the Tories and Labour, why doesn't that party exist, and why hasn't it flourished?

But Scotland has shown that it is possible to have real change. Would we ever have envisaged a Labour party with one Scottish seat a couple of years ago? The SNP has been very successful in this campaign without a huge financial backing.

As for real change, what would you envisage on that? Ultimately all politicians, regardless of their political colours, are self serving, self preserving in nature, and they'll promise anything and everything if they think it will get them more votes.

Because people don't think there's any point in voting for minor parties as they can't get a foothold under FPTP. I'm convinced far more people would've voted green if they thought it would convert to MPs.

My system would be sub-regional proportional representation. i.e. Sussex would have proportional representation for its 18 (?) constituencies. You would still vote for specific candidates.

 

[Hampster Gull]

We needed it years ago. Democracy failing