EDL - Discuss

[Footsoldier]

Shall I post Labour MP's being racists or is just the EDL and UKIP that are?

 

[Nibble]

I don't understand how the EDL think they can be seen as anything but fascists when they march into towns wearing jackboots and sporting skinheads and (as I personally witnessed) give the Nazi salute to an Asian photographer on Queens Road. Not to mention getting into verbals with locals. Whatever their agenda is, behaving like that is hardly going to endear them to whatever town they stomp through.

 

[Machiavelli]

Ok, so fascism may not be the correct term but, whilst I wholeheartedly disagree with the EDL and their message, I do believe they have the right to express that message. Just as I have the right to protest against that message when they stroll into town every year.

Unlike others on this thread, I respect your viewpoint and intentions. The problem with your position comes when they cease to be insignificant in size. Once that happens, we'll be in danger of them swelling their ranks even further. And guess what happens when they get so large as to get into government: you won't have the right to protest against their message; you won't even have the right to speak out against their message; in all likelihood, you'll be able to send Jews, gypsies, Muslims, gays or whoever is subject to their particular wrath along to the gas chamber, or whichever technology they choose to deploy.
Politics ultimately entails differences, which can spill out into conflict. With the vast majority of those I disagree with -- including Westdene Seagull -- it's right to engage with words. To those only intent on violence -- fascists -- there are two groups worth worrying about. First, persuading non-fascists to remain as such. Second, the fascists themselves, who can only be met with violence, because it's all they understand.
I do appreciate that confronting the second group might only serve to alienate the first group but, ultimately that's a judgement call.

 

[Machiavelli]

Ah I see, you condone violence - just as long as it's for left wing purposes ? I beginning to think you're that Green idiot Ben Duncan.

Using you figures they are 200 idiots - ignore them - they are after attention. People like you are giving it to them.

I always thought it was you that was like Ben Duncan, only of a different political persuasion.

 

[Husty]

Have some valid arguments taken to extremes by extremely thick people so the valid arguments can't ever be discussed without everyone being branded a racist.

Racist.

 

[Prettyboyshaw]

Racist.

Leftie

 

[Westdene Seagull]

-- it's right to engage with words. To those only intent on violence -- fascists -- there are two groups worth worrying about. First, persuading non-fascists to remain as such. Second, the fascists themselves, who can only be met with violence, because it's all they understand.
I do appreciate that confronting the second group might only serve to alienate the first group but, ultimately that's a judgement call.

Confronting an extremist group with violence is self perpetuating and pointless. It lessens your argument and your standing. You inflate the problem. The strange thing is that when left wingers participate in violence they then whinge when the police use similar tactics against them. It makes the whole thing a vicious cycle and only those without the intelligence to debate resort to violence.

 

[Machiavelli]

Confronting an extremist group with violence is self perpetuating and pointless. It lessens your argument and your standing. You inflate the problem. The strange thing is that when left wingers participate in violence they then whinge when the police use similar tactics against them. It makes the whole thing a vicious cycle and only those without the intelligence to debate resort to violence.

You think Britain going to war against Hitler was 'self perpetuating and pointless', then?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

You think Britain was wrong to go to war against Hitler then?

There is a world of difference between Britain warning Germany that there would be war if they invaded Poland and some self proclaimed, unelected leftie group taking things into their own hands.

As for the comparison to Ben Duncan - he believes in violence for political ends, I don't.

EDIT - If, yet again, our city has to play host to these left and right wing brainless toss pots on St Georges Day again I hope the police give both sides a good battering - that's clearly what they both want and need. Hypocritical - yes, but at least a few might not turn up the next year having received broken bones and bruises from police batons.

 

[Blue3]

They're fascists. They should not be allowed a voice. They only understand violence and that's the only response they deserve.
This is one of the lessons that was learnt by those who lived through the 1930s.

They must have a voice as though open full debate is the way for them to be shown for what they are and what they stand for

 

[User removed 4]

Unlike others on this thread, I respect your viewpoint and intentions. The problem with your position comes when they cease to be insignificant in size. Once that happens, we'll be in danger of them swelling their ranks even further. And guess what happens when they get so large as to get into government: you won't have the right to protest against their message; you won't even have the right to speak out against their message; in all likelihood, you'll be able to send Jews, gypsies, Muslims, gays or whoever is subject to their particular wrath along to the gas chamber, or whichever technology they choose to deploy.
Politics ultimately entails differences, which can spill out into conflict. With the vast majority of those I disagree with -- including Westdene Seagull -- it's right to engage with words. To those only intent on violence -- fascists -- there are two groups worth worrying about. First, persuading non-fascists to remain as such. Second, the fascists themselves, who can only be met with violence, because it's all they understand.
I do appreciate that confronting the second group might only serve to alienate the first group but, ultimately that's a judgement call.

As long as the odds are 10 to 1 in my favour

 

[Machiavelli]

As long as the odds are 10 to 1 in my favour

Are you brave enough to say that to a Holocaust survivor? In person?

 

[Machiavelli]

There is a world of difference between Britain warning Germany that there would be war if they invaded Poland and some self proclaimed, unelected leftie group taking things into their own hands.

As for the comparison to Ben Duncan - he believes in violence for political ends, I don't.

EDIT - If, yet again, our city has to play host to these left and right wing brainless toss pots on St Georges Day again I hope the police give both sides a good battering - that's clearly what they both want and need. Hypocritical - yes, but at least a few might not turn up the next year having received broken bones and bruises from police batons.

Westdene. These little exchanges that we have become rather tiresome don't they? You've admitted that you're being a hypocrite in this last email. Violence is inherent to politics. So for you to say that you don't believe in violence for political ends demonstrates that you really don't understand what politics is.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Westdene. These little exchanges that we have become rather tiresome don't they? You've admitted that you're being a hypocrite in this last email. Violence is inherent to politics. So for you to say that you don't believe in violence for political ends demonstrates that you really don't understand what politics is.

I'm being a hypocrite because I don't believe politics should involve violence. If people are so unintelligent that they think violence is the way to solve the problem then generally their view isn't worth even considering. Obviously both yourself and Ben Duncan highlight the hidden Green agenda - "if you don't agree with our politics then we'll beat you into submission - literally"

 

[Machiavelli]

I'm being a hypocrite because I don't believe politics should involve violence. If people are so unintelligent that they think violence is the way to solve the problem then generally their view isn't worth even considering. Obviously both yourself and Ben Duncan highlight the hidden Green agenda - "if you don't agree with our politics then we'll beat you into submission - literally"

Firstly, hypocrisy is never a good way to argue.
Secondly, now I understand, you're actually an anarchist and think that the state -- with all its means of violence, including the police force that you want to use to beat up protesters of any persuasion -- should be abolished.

 

[daveinprague]

on over time dave or had to rush back home to join in the debate ??
regards
DR

Dont know what sort of phone you use halfwit, but I can use the internet on mine. Its amazing......you laughable clown.

 

[Hamilton]

Thoroughly good idea, and an organisation that is very much needed, as one poster has already said.

http://www.edl.me/

 

[smeg]

I switched to Southern Electric.

Very happy.

Haha

 

[daveinprague]

yes, the larger number of people in a town with two universities, and no discernible effects from large scale immigration, but you just worry about number one eh ?

So, why 'march' in Brighton?
Oh yeah, I remember, its in my signature.

 

[stripeyshark]

They're fascists. They should not be allowed a voice. They only understand violence and that's the only response they deserve.
This is one of the lessons that was learnt by those who lived through the 1930s.