Ed Milliband..... I do believe he's got it.

[HovaGirl]

I think it's more a case that you simply have to be squeaky clean to get on, risk takers or otherwise. Seriously, why should anyone give a monkeys about someone's private life if they are delivering good government? Yet people obviously do.

The only exception to that is if you are standing on a platform of family values whilst screwing members of your cabinet, such as those Tory hypocrites, Major and Currie.

Quite. But most people, in the end, are hypocrites. It's part of the human condition.

 

[HovaGirl]

To escape paying employer's NI? Or are you saying that under the Tories in the late 90s before the minimum wage was introduced, there was literally NOBODY being paid off the books?

Far less than today. Mostly bit-workers in hotels.

 

[Simster]

Quite. But most people, in the end, are hypocrites. It's part of the human condition.

A ridiculous thing to say, conveniently overlooking the fact that only the Tories have been that bare-faced hypocritical in recent years. You wouldn't have dreamed of posting that drivel had a Labour government been guilty of such hypocrisy on this issue.

 

[Simster]

Far less than today. Mostly bit-workers in hotels.

Pure conjecture.

I'm with [MENTION=1877]supaseagull[/MENTION] and [MENTION=11956]bushy[/MENTION] on this one. The type of people who employee others off the book to avoid miniumum wage are largely scummy shysters who would do so anyway if it meant reducing their legal obligations. As has been said, anyone who can't afford to pay £6.75 an hour has no business employing anyone at all.

 

[HovaGirl]

A ridiculous thing to say, conveniently overlooking the fact that only the Tories have been that bare-faced hypocritical in recent years. You wouldn't have dreamed of posting that drivel had a Labour government been guilty of such hypocrisy on this issue.

Goodness me! But Labour are the biggest hypcrites of all.

 

[HovaGirl]

Pure conjecture.

I'm with [MENTION=1877]supaseagull[/MENTION] and [MENTION=11956]bushy[/MENTION] on this one. The type of people who employee others off the book to avoid miniumum wage are largely scummy shysters who would do so anyway if it meant reducing their legal obligations. As has been said, anyone who can't afford to pay £6.75 an hour has no business employing anyone at all.

That's right. But it doesn't stop the shysters, does it?

 

[Woodingdeanseagulls]

I don't think anyone can dispute the contribution Eastern Europeans and workers from outside the EU have made to this country has been great. My problem with mass immigration has always been the pressures it is putting on our services such as schools, hospitals, doctors and the welfare system. It's not fair on people who have paid in to the system for years to end up receiving a degraded service due to government cut backs, and because of the extra costs associated with allowing all these extra people in to the system. We will eventually get to the stage, where we will not have enough housing or services to cope with the demand of mass immigration in the future.

I do believe that people coming to live and work in this country should pay a bit more in tax for at least 5 years, which would then give them the entitlement to all our other benefits, and I do believe they should have the funds all ready in place to able to fund their stay over here so they don't immediately become a burden on the system, and also have the necessary qualifications. It's not too much to ask, it's being fair and it's protecting the system that our parents and grandparents have paid in to for years. Things like the NHS are fanstastic, but if we are not careful I can see this going.

None of the above really seems to be happening. I agree it is getting a lot tougher to get in to this country, but it's still not enough in my opinion.

Labour's policy on immigration is poor. They don't really want to talk about it, or tackle the real issues. Millibands idea of cutting immigration levels is to get rid of gang masters and make sure everyone gets the minimum wage so that British workers don't get undercut, that is not really going to solve the problem is it, It's weak. Milliband talks about a United Britain, what the hell does it all mean? It sounds like that thing Brown said, British jobs for British workers.

This and many other reasons are why I don't want Labour running this country. It would be a disaster.

Completely agree.

 

[Camicus]

Goodness me! But Labour are the biggest hypcrites of all.

Except Tories you can say whatever you want but DC used his dead son as a photo op and then used him as an example of why the NHS was safe in his hands

 

[Simster]

Goodness me! But Labour are the biggest hypcrites of all.

I won't disagree that they have been hypocritical over their attitude towards the proposed cutbacks and the nausiating soundbites. But I'd say the same about most oppostition parties down the years, in fairness. For example, Blair sent us into an illegal war, and when it all went wrong the Tories laid into him, despite having exactly the same policy themselves at the time.

However, no Labour party has stood firmly on a family values ticket whilst nobbing their colleagues. The Tories dominate that particular arena, there is little arguement to be had there. And your attempt to defend it as "a human trait" betrays your lack of objectiivity, IMO.

 

[HovaGirl]

I won't disagree that they have been hypocritical over their attitude towards the proposed cutbacks and the nausiating soundbites. But I'd say the same about most oppostition parties down the years, in fairness. For example, Blair sent us into an illegal war, and when it all went wrong the Tories laid into him, despite having exactly the same policy themselves at the time.

However, no Labour party has stood firmly on a family values ticket whilst nobbing their colleagues. The Tories dominate that particular arena, there is little arguement to be had there. And your attempt to defend it as "a human trait" betrays your lack of objectiivity, IMO.

Family Values.
One Nation.
You takes your pick.

 

[Simster]

That's right. But it doesn't stop the shysters, does it?

No, but I'm not saying that.

There are various groups of employers:
1) those who will pay a living wage and their dues to the revenue
2) those who will pay as little as possible and their dues to the revenue
3) the scum who will go under the table, paying £3 an hour and nothing in NI.

Group #3 will always exist, and are a job for law enforcement. We should seek to remove group #2.

Those who choose to move into group #1 are to be applauded and encouraged. Those who move into #3 should be prosecuted, and that leaves a very small remainder who frankly have no business employing anyone if they can't move to #1.

 

[Simster]

Family Values.
One Nation.
You takes your pick.

What are you talking about? Call me when Milliband is caught shagging Tessa Jowell.

 

[Seagull58]

A ridiculous thing to say, conveniently overlooking the fact that only the Tories have been that bare-faced hypocritical in recent years. You wouldn't have dreamed of posting that drivel had a Labour government been guilty of such hypocrisy on this issue.

Wasn't Prescott, working class man of the people, screwing his secretary and playing crocquet on the lawn whilst, supposedly, helping to run the country?

 

[Simster]

Wasn't Prescott, working class man of the people, screwing his secretary and playing crocquet on the lawn whilst, supposedly, helping to run the country?

I believe so, yes. When did he stand on a ticket of "family values" then? f*** me, this difference isn't that difficult to comprehend, surely?

 

[User removed 4]

Except Tories you can say whatever you want but DC used his dead son as a photo op and then used him as an example of why the NHS was safe in his hands

he didnt, and thats a pretty tasteless thing to say.

 

[Camicus]

he didnt, and thats a pretty tasteless thing to say.

But he did. And not once but repeatedly He constantly praised the NHS who had done such great work with his son Ivan How Ivan Cameron influenced his father's politics | Politics | guardian.co.uk for 1

 

[User removed 4]

But he did. And not once but repeatedly He constantly praised the NHS who had done such great work with his son Ivan How Ivan Cameron influenced his father's politics | Politics | guardian.co.uk for 1

I meant the part about his son being used as a "photo op", whatever your view , I think its dangerous territory(metaphorically speaking) to stray into making those sort of accusations.

 

[Camicus]

We need to talk about Ivan sturdyblog read that

 

[The Birdman]

Given that the last labour government left the country on the verge of bankruptcy and that the 2 Ed's were Gordons advisers in financial matters please NO!

What did the note say no money left after twelve years of labour ,don't want that again.

 

[Camicus]

What did the note say no money left after twelve years of labour ,don't want that again.

What they didnt tell you is that they have followed this tradition for decades. the outgoing secretary leaves a not for the incoming. What is not traditional is leaking it to the press to make political capital.