[Other Sport] Dubois v Joyce. Fight night.

[DJ NOBO]

That’s a very reasonable argument and whilst I disagree, interesting to hear your view on this.

Agree with the 8 round scorecard to Dubois, that’s shockingly bad.

Likewise.
Let’s hope both of them get world title shots in the next couple of years.

 

[Albion Dan]

The difference between a champion who would need to be dragged out the ring regardless of any damage and a fighter who just hasn’t got the minerals to go all the way. I think Dubois is finished personally. He now knows that when he really needs to go to the well that he hasn’t got what it takes.

 

[Half Time Pies]

I disagree with that. If the fight had carried on, Dubois would have got battered and risked even more injury to his broken eye socket. It wouldn’t have gone the distance. Joyce knew it, Dubois (obviously) knew it.
The fact is Dubois was put in with an experienced, resilient campaigner too soon. His corner probably realised that during the fight. You can be fairly sure Dubois packed it in under orders or at least advice from his corner.
I don’t think it necessarily means he’d pull out again.
Also , it’s easy for us to say “he quit, he should have carried on”. Many a punch drunk, broke ex pro has taken that attitude.
It’s all good for us British fight fans - Joyce will get a shot before he’s past it, Dubois will have time to regroup and have another go. Him quitting last night, hopefully safeguards his future

This is about a fighters instinct, unless you are a journeyman and just there for the payday no fighter is going to be weighing up the options on whether taking a knee is the right thing to do in the context of their career or chance of winning. They keep going until they have had enough (or they are pulled out by their corner), and Dubois had clearly had enough which shows that his threshold for punishment is quite low. He'd never been in that situation before and you don't know how how a fighter is going to react until you get there.

There are lots of interviews on line with current and ex-fighters who understand this and were quite surprised that he had pulled out in the manner that he did. Most are calling him a quiter.

 

[DJ NOBO]

This is about a fighters instinct, unless you are a journeyman and just there for the payday no fighter is going to be weighing up the options on whether taking a knee is the right thing to do in the context of their career or chance of winning. They keep going until they have had enough (or they are pulled out by their corner), and Dubois had clearly had enough which shows that his threshold for punishment is quite low. He'd never been in that situation before and you don't know how how a fighter is going to react until you get there.

There are lots of interviews on line with current and ex-fighters who understand this and were quite surprised that he had pulled out in the manner that he did. Most are calling him a quiter.

He did quit. No doubt about it.
But maybe his trainer whispered to him “see how the start of the next round plays out, but if you feel the eye get worse then pack it in”.
His instinct may have been to carry on, but he trusted his trainer’s judgment more. His trainer certainly whispered something. and Dubois looked straight to the corner at the end of the count.
As for his threshold for punishment - his eye socket was smashed to pieces and he had Joyce opposite him trying to punch that eye. What more punishment do you want?
The reality is Dubois is young enough to regroup and come again. This defeat won’t stop that. For Joyce, defeat would have been a disaster.

 

[Half Time Pies]

He did quit. No doubt about it.
But maybe his trainer whispered to him “see how the start of the next round plays out, but if you feel the eye get worse then pack it in”.
His instinct may have been to carry on, but he trusted his trainer’s judgment more. His trainer certainly whispered something. and Dubois looked straight to the corner at the end of the count.
As for his threshold for punishment - his eye socket was smashed to pieces and he had Joyce opposite him trying to punch that eye. What more punishment do you want?
The reality is Dubois is young enough to regroup and come again. This defeat won’t stop that. For Joyce, defeat would have been a disaster.

No trainer is going to tell his fighter to quit, he may tell the fighter if he doesn't start throwing more back that he will throw the towel in but that is as far as it would go. And even if he did you see regularly fighters complain that their corner has thrown the towel in or a referee has stopped the bout, every one but them can see that they have taken enough punishment, do you really think a true fighter is going to take a trainers advice to quit?!

 

[DJ NOBO]

No trainer is going to tell his fighter to quit, he may tell the fighter if he doesn't start throwing more back that he will throw the towel in but that is as far as it would go. And even if he did you see regularly fighters complain that their corner has thrown the towel in or a referee has stopped the bout, every one but them can see that they have taken enough punishment, do you really think a true fighter is going to take a trainers advice to quit?!

I think that’s exactly what happened. Watch the fight back. And remember, Dubois is young and thick.I could see him doing as he’s told.

 

[Albion Dan]

He did quit. No doubt about it.
But maybe his trainer whispered to him “see how the start of the next round plays out, but if you feel the eye get worse then pack it in”. r.

A trainer would never say that. They might say show you can stay in the fight or we'll throw the towel in but they would never say take a knee like that. Anyone in the game knows how damaging to a boxers reputation a defeat like that looks. Whilst we'r on the subject of trainers, I thought Dubois was nothing short of pathetic last night. There was no technical advice at all, just attempts to rev their fighter up. The lad was eating an unanswered jab all fight ad they gave him no advice on how to change tactics from any of the footage I witnessed. Dubois looked in a state of panic from the 3rd round imo once he realised his big shots were going to get the job done like against past opponents.

 

[DJ NOBO]

A trainer would never say that. They might say show you can stay in the fight or we'll throw the towel in but they would never say take a knee like that. Anyone in the game knows how damaging to a boxers reputation a defeat like that looks. Whilst we'r on the subject of trainers, I thought Dubois was nothing short of pathetic last night. There was no technical advice at all, just attempts to rev their fighter up. The lad was eating an unanswered jab all fight ad they gave him no advice on how to change tactics from any of the footage I witnessed. Dubois looked in a state of panic from the 3rd round imo once he realised his big shots were going to get the job done like against past opponents.

Yes. Dubois and his camp seemed surprised that his opponent kept punching him in the face.
Jabbing at distance was the most obvious of tactics, yet they seemed bewildered.
Crazy.

 

[Albion Dan]

He needs a new team imo and you’ve got to question Warrens strategy as promoter as clearly Daniel was no where near ready for that huge step up from where he’d been. Seems Warren just wanted the golden goose to start laying before it was ready.

 

[dangull]

Not only did he have a broken eye socket, but also possible nerve damage to the eye. He must have been in agony, no shame in quitting in that case. A lot of brave people on NSC sitting on a couch doubting his courage

 

[The_Viper]

Really? Without getting into a generational thing here but no way boxers 30 & 40 years ago quit in those circumstances. Typical, soft millennial, probably wanted to catch the end of love island or check out his twitter feed. Soft as shite.

Lmao okay boomer.

 

[big nuts]

Not only did he have a broken eye socket, but also possible nerve damage to the eye. He must have been in agony, no shame in quitting in that case. A lot of brave people on NSC sitting on a couch doubting his courage

I’d rather admire the boxers who would have kept going in similar circumstances, rather then excuse a quitter.

Whilst you don’t expect that type of injury, quitting is the ultimate no, no in combat sport and boxing.

 

[mothy]

Not only did he have a broken eye socket, but also possible nerve damage to the eye. He must have been in agony, no shame in quitting in that case. A lot of brave people on NSC sitting on a couch doubting his courage

Hopefully he gets over it & gets to go again. He's only a baby for the heavy weight division

 

[The_Viper]

https://www.boxingscene.com/dont-tell-me-daniel-dubois-quitter--153643

 

[CheeseRolls]

I’d rather admire the boxers who would have kept going in similar circumstances, rather then excuse a quitter.

Whilst you don’t expect that type of injury, quitting is the ultimate no, no in combat sport and boxing.

I watched this one live on TV (Denis Lebedev vs. Guillermo Jones) go google the pictures of Lebedev if you are interested. Lebedev hit Jones with everything, but also ate a lot of leather from the first round onward and the swelling around his eye was sickening. The fight continued long after it should have been stopped with Lebedev barely able to see out of either eye getting knocked out in the 11th. Jones was subsequently stripped of the title for doping. There was nothing heroic about this.

Maybe rather than call out Dubois for quitting, maybe people should be asking why his corner didn't pull him out.

 

[Lenny Rider]

I watched this one live on TV (Denis Lebedev vs. Guillermo Jones) go google the pictures of Lebedev if you are interested. Lebedev hit Jones with everything, but also ate a lot of leather from the first round onward and the swelling around his eye was sickening. The fight continued long after it should have been stopped with Lebedev barely able to see out of either eye getting knocked out in the 11th. Jones was subsequently stripped of the title for doping. There was nothing heroic about this.

Maybe rather than call out Dubois for quitting, maybe people should be asking why his corner didn't pull him out.

This.....

His corner should have pulled him out, at the end of the Ninth possibly even a round earlier.

It probably doesn't help Dubois that he's in an era with, aside from Lennox Lewis, the two greatest British heavyweights in the history of the sport, that said his record is made up of Eastern European hod carriers and British night club bouncers with aspirations, apart from the obvious height issue, he reminds me a lot of Bruno, impressive unbeaten record from handpicked opponents, which is seriously questioned when he gets in with someone half decent.

 

[CheeseRolls]

This.....

His corner should have pulled him out, at the end of the Ninth possibly even a round earlier.

It probably doesn't help Dubois that he's in an era with, aside from Lennox Lewis, the two greatest British heavyweights in the history of the sport, that said his record is made up of Eastern European hod carriers and British night club bouncers with aspirations, apart from the obvious height issue, he reminds me a lot of Bruno, impressive unbeaten record from handpicked opponents, which is seriously questioned when he gets in with someone half decent.

It's up to him now. Dubois has obvious power, good footwork and this was a very close fight. If he was to go away maybe shed a little muscle to improve his speed and most importantly gets a decent coach, who can work on his head movement, there is no technical reason, why he can't come back a better fighter.

 

[mothy]

This.....

His corner should have pulled him out, at the end of the Ninth possibly even a round earlier.

It probably doesn't help Dubois that he's in an era with, aside from Lennox Lewis, the two greatest British heavyweights in the history of the sport, that said his record is made up of Eastern European hod carriers and British night club bouncers with aspirations, apart from the obvious height issue, he reminds me a lot of Bruno, impressive unbeaten record from handpicked opponents, which is seriously questioned when he gets in with someone half decent.

Or the ref could have had the doctor look at it. & the doc may have stopped it - as he couldn't see out of both eyes