[Politics] Donald Trump, US President

[Rdodge30]

At the end of WWII when we agreed the lend-lease liabilities were turned into the anglo-american loan, mainly because we wanted to keep much of what was supposed to be returned (that hadn't been destroyed), the US wrote off a large amount of what the UK could have owed. In effect the US had gifted a large amount that went unpaid to the UK's and other countries war effort.

I don't know the exact figures, I'd have to look them up, but the US shipped something like $30bn (in 1940s money) to the UK under lend-lease with the anglo-american loan which you referred to as the debt we finally repaid in 2006 was $3.75bn. https://history.blog.gov.uk/2020/12...american-financial-agreement-6-december-1945/

and let’s not forget FDR served 4 terms as President

 

[BiffyBoy100]

Brilliant to see Americans standing up for themselves. After being accused of anti American sentiment we should post of these good people.



maybe a thread full of people telling Trump and Musk to get f***ed?? ,

I'm glad you've highlighted this because, to be honest, I do find your posts quite anti-American at times.

What you're pointing out reflects conversations happening across much of the U.S. As I mentioned in a previous post, it's unfair to blame all Americans for certain issues. I’m not sure if this is due to how the media presents things or just the nature of discussions on a football forum, but if you spent time in the U.S., you'd likely find a much more balanced and diverse range of perspectives.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

 

[jcdenton08]

He's a right **** that JD Vance. A total and utter **** in fact.

An absolute dilbert

 

[rippleman]

I'm glad you've highlighted this because, to be honest, I do find your posts quite anti-American at times.

What you're pointing out reflects conversations happening across much of the U.S. As I mentioned in a previous post, it's unfair to blame all Americans for certain issues. I’m not sure if this is due to how the media presents things or just the nature of discussions on a football forum, but if you spent time in the U.S., you'd likely find a much more balanced and diverse range of perspectives.

Of course nobody can blame "all Americans"...only those who voted for Trump.

Those who believed his bollox enough to vote for him then, will still be supporting him now.

The sensible, logical Americans who didn't vote for Trump were in the minority at the election and they are still in the minority now.

 

[jcdenton08]

Of course nobody can blame "all Americans"...only those who voted for Trump.

Those who believed his bollox enough to vote for him then, will still be supporting him now.

The sensible, logical Americans who didn't vote for Trump were in the minority at the election and they are still in the minority now.

The scary thing to me, is that it’s not like Trump was hiding whispering in the bushes. He was storming in with a megaphone.

Half of Americans, give or take, knew exactly what they were voting for and did so anyway.

 

[SouthSaxon]

The scary thing to me, is that it’s not like Trump was hiding whispering in the bushes. He was storming in with a megaphone.

Half of Americans, give or take, knew exactly what they were voting for and did so anyway.

If I may be of some assistance on this matter:

 

[BiffyBoy100]

Of course nobody can blame "all Americans"...only those who voted for Trump.

Those who believed his bollox enough to vote for him then, will still be supporting him now.

The sensible, logical Americans who didn't vote for Trump were in the minority at the election and they are still in the minority now.

There’s a big difference between using ‘Americans’ as a blanket statement and referring specifically to those who voted for Trump. And when you break it down, the margin in 2024 was actually very small. Trump won with just 49.8% of the vote to 48.3%, which isn’t exactly a landslide. It’s similar to Brexit, where only 51.9% voted to leave.

I split my time between the US and the UK (and fortunately live in a democratic state), and I’d be pretty offended if people made the same sweeping statements about us after Brexit. Take the South of England, for example, London voted 59.9% to remain, Brighton was 68.6% Remain, yet people lumped the whole country together as pro-Brexit.

It’s the same with the US—people picture Alabama and Texas, but the country is vast, politically diverse, and as varied as Europe in terms of views, laws, and even lifestyles.

 

[BBassic]

There’s a big difference between using ‘Americans’ as a blanket statement and referring specifically to those who voted for Trump. And when you break it down, the margin in 2024 was actually very small. Trump won with just 49.8% of the vote to 48.3%, which isn’t exactly a landslide. It’s similar to Brexit, where only 51.9% voted to leave.

I split my time between the US and the UK (and fortunately live in a democratic state), and I’d be pretty offended if people made the same sweeping statements about us after Brexit. Take the South of England, for example, London voted 59.9% to remain, Brighton was 68.6% Remain, yet people lumped the whole country together as pro-Brexit.

It’s the same with the US—people picture Alabama and Texas, but the country is vast, politically diverse, and as varied as Europe in terms of views, laws, and even lifestyles.

People did, and still do, make sweeping blanket statements about us because of Brexit

The percentages don't matter a jot: as a nation "we" voted for something. Just as the Americans have.

 

[BiffyBoy100]

People did, and still do, make sweeping blanket statements about us because of Brexit

The percentages don't matter a jot: as a nation "we" voted for something. Just as the Americans have.

I get that sweeping statements were made about the UK post-Brexit, but that doesn’t mean they were accurate or fair. The point I was making is that I’d have been offended if people assumed I voted for Brexit just because I’m British, especially considering how places like Brighton and London overwhelmingly voted Remain.

Again Brighton: 68.6% voted Remain in 2016, and it’s the same with the US, where I live, 75% for Kamala Harris in 2024 (a common theme across the East & West Coast), but people still talk about the US as if the entire country is Alabama.

I personally didn’t get that same reaction living here during Brexit. Sure, there were generalisations, but people understood how split the UK was. Elections have winners, but that doesn’t mean everyone voted the same way. Just as the UK was deeply divided over Brexit, the US is politically diverse too and lumping everyone together ignores that.

 

[BBassic]

I get that sweeping statements were made about the UK post-Brexit, but that doesn’t mean they were accurate or fair. The point I was making is that I’d have been offended if people assumed I voted for Brexit just because I’m British, especially considering how places like Brighton and London overwhelmingly voted Remain.

Again Brighton: 68.6% voted Remain in 2016, and it’s the same with the US, where I live, 75% for Kamala Harris in 2024 (a common theme across the East & West Coast), but people still talk about the US as if the entire country is Alabama.

I personally didn’t get that same reaction living here during Brexit. Sure, there were generalisations, but people understood how split the UK was. Elections have winners, but that doesn’t mean everyone voted the same way. Just as the UK was deeply divided over Brexit, the US is politically diverse too and lumping everyone together ignores that.

Yeah I agree with all that - was just pointing out that generalisations were made post Brexit.

It's just something people do. Football fans have been in the past all lumped in with hooligans

It's just easier in discussions like this to say "I can't believe the utter insanity the Americans have inflicted upon themselves" rather than "I can't believe the utter insanity 48% of Americans have inflicted upon all the other Americans who either voted Democrat or didn't turn up to vote at all"

 

[drew]

Not sure if something similar has been posted but does anyone else feel that the Friday pantomime was all orchestrated and probably resulted from Trump's unilateral talks with Putin and any agreements they made between themselves? Trump trying every angle to make Zelensky look the bad guy and give the US the excuse they're looking for to walk away. This garbage about Zelensky not wanting peace when actually what the US are effectively suggesting is that Ukraine should just surrender anything and everything that Putin wants.

 

[aolstudios]

Not sure if something similar has been posted but does anyone else feel that the Friday pantomime was all orchestrated and probably resulted from Trump's unilateral talks with Putin and any agreements they made between themselves? Trump trying every angle to make Zelensky look the bad guy and give the US the excuse they're looking for to walk away. This garbage about Zelensky not wanting peace when actually what the US are effectively suggesting is that Ukraine should just surrender anything and everything that Putin wants.

Mr Nail,
Meet Ms Head

 

[jcdenton08]

Mr Nail,
Meet Ms Head

Ms Head is very good. Affordable too.

 

[BiffyBoy100]

Yeah I agree with all that - was just pointing out that generalisations were made post Brexit.

It's just something people do. Football fans have been in the past all lumped in with hooligans

It's just easier in discussions like this to say "I can't believe the utter insanity the Americans have inflicted upon themselves" rather than "I can't believe the utter insanity 48% of Americans have inflicted upon all the other Americans who either voted Democrat or didn't turn up to vote at all"

That's fair, and maybe I'm being overly sensitive. I don't expect anyone to break it all down every time. It just gets tiresome when you see posts targeting all Americans, or anecdotal takes like 'Americans aren’t nice people because I once visited and there were lots of homeless.' .

I also have no issue with criticism or the debate of Trump, Musk, etc.—they should be judged on their individual actions.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Not sure if something similar has been posted but does anyone else feel that the Friday pantomime was all orchestrated and probably resulted from Trump's unilateral talks with Putin and any agreements they made between themselves? Trump trying every angle to make Zelensky look the bad guy and give the US the excuse they're looking for to walk away. This garbage about Zelensky not wanting peace when actually what the US are effectively suggesting is that Ukraine should just surrender anything and everything that Putin wants.

Sorry, No.

As I've said previously, I don't think Trump is capable of working to any plan due to his complete lack of intellectual ability to grasp either concepts or detail and the narcissistic personality disorder he suffers from, together with a particularly nasty vindictive streak, makes our own homegrown narcissist 'Trolley' Johnson look like the most focused, strategic and intellectually brilliant leader ever.

The exact same reason he isn't a Russian Asset. They can't trust him to follow a plan or focus for 5 minutes either, so they are getting by on feeding him lines in their various meetings and watching him spew them out at random. They know he can't be controlled but have accepted he's a moron and are loving what's happening.

I'm afraid that what you are seeing is someone completely out of control with others trying to run around and 'support' him wherever he goes. It's not going to end well, but I can't see it going on for more than another 18 months at most

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The scary thing to me, is that it’s not like Trump was hiding whispering in the bushes. He was storming in with a megaphone.

Half of Americans, give or take, knew exactly what they were voting for and did so anyway.

I wouldn't have, but I can understand some of those who did*.
And if the Ukraine 'war' stops soon......
And if the EU gives its head a wobble and creates a genuine military bloc that itself deters Putin going forward....

A stopped clock is right twice a day.
Sure, it is a stopped clock.
But it is also a clock.
Right, twice a day.

It could be said that Biden and his replacement (whose name I have already forgotten) were more wallpaper (flock) than clock.

Most people who voted for Trump are not MAGA.

*You are more persuasive when you don't try to explain, @lasvegan,
albeit who can blame you for trying given the frequency you were asked to do so, including by me

 

[BiffyBoy100]

No. As I've said previously, I don't think Trump is capable of working to any plan due to his complete lack of intellectual ability to grasp either concepts or detail and the narcissistic personality disorder he suffers from, together with a particularly nasty vindictive streak, makes our own homegrown narcissist 'Trolley' Johnson look like the most focused, strategic and intellectually brilliant leader ever.

The exact same reason he isn't a Russian Asset. They can't trust him to follow a plan or focus for 5 minutes either, so they are getting by on feeding him lines in their various meetings and watching him spew them out at random. They know he can't be controlled but have accepted he's a moron and are loving what's happening.

I'm afraid that what you are seeing is someone completely out of control with others trying to run around and 'support' him wherever he goes. It's not going to end well, but I can't see it going on for more than another 18 months at most

I was thinking about this last night. Trump clearly has a huge PR/comms team, and during his first term, he was quick to fire people something we haven't really seen yet this time.

I assumed they had that whole press setup with trigger points based on what Zelensky said, and Vance's reaction felt very rehearsed.

But it did make me wonder if Trump is taking more advice on board this time. He didn’t really bite back much with Starmer or Macron, which seems out of character. Maybe it’s because he has more to lose or they were both very slick and impressive?

You could likely be right though.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I was thinking about this last night. Trump clearly has a huge PR/comms team, and during his first term, he was quick to fire people something we haven't really seen yet this time.

I assumed they had that whole press setup with trigger points based on what Zelensky said, and Vance's reaction felt very rehearsed.

But it did make me wonder if Trump is taking more advice on board this time. He didn’t really bite back much with Starmer or Macron, which seems out of character. Maybe it’s because he has more to lose or they were both very slick and impressive?

You could likely be right though.

Another possibility:

Zilenskyy is impressive and correct.
But he can also be quite annoying.
If you think your predecessor has bunged Someone Far Away a mass of free stuff with no strings, your annoyance threshold may be low.

I don't regard Trump as considered.
The attack was based on antipathy rather than a scripted stratagem.
I suspect he regards Zilenskyy as an ungrateful twerp
He isn't, but I can understand how Trump would think he is.

I am hopeful Starmer can see all of the dynamic here.
Trump has charged Europe with military investment neglect.
Trump cannot now easily baulk if Europe, with Starmer in the lead, strives to save Ukraine with military investment.
And 'boots on the ground'. Backed up by US might.....
Starmer was very far from Putin-friendly today, and was backed by Badenough and Cleverly.

Interesting times.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I was thinking about this last night. Trump clearly has a huge PR/comms team, and during his first term, he was quick to fire people something we haven't really seen yet this time.

I assumed they had that whole press setup with trigger points based on what Zelensky said, and Vance's reaction felt very rehearsed.

But it did make me wonder if Trump is taking more advice on board this time. He didn’t really bite back much with Starmer or Macron, which seems out of character. Maybe it’s because he has more to lose or they were both very slick and impressive?

You could likely be right though.

It's just a theory, like so many others.

But we do have a bit of experience of populism encouraging people to do incredibly stupid things despite all evidence to the contrary here in the UK