[TV] Doctor Who (spoiler alert)

[Brovion]

It was in The Brain of Morbius. Classic Philip Hinchcliffe / Tom Baker monster era.

The Doctor has always been a bit mysterious, for instance did we ever find out his dark secret from the old time, the time of chaos, that Lady Peinforte threatened him with in Silver Nemesis?

That was from the Brain of Morbius, when the Doctor enters a 'mind bending' competition with the powerful mind of Morbius. During that he shows us and Morbius 8 faces that were supposedly prior to Hartnell.

https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/The_Doctor_(The_Brain_of_Morbius)

Blimey, fair enough. I don't remember that and I would definitely have watched it. I knew the limit on regenerations was set by the Time Lords and wasn't a biological limitation. (Although if it is limitless I'm not sure what Rassilon was looking for in the Five Doctors? The imposed legal limit stopped Time Lord immortality).

Still don't like them being this all-powerful figure with mental super-powers though.

 

[Dave the OAP]

I found last season / series of the show at bit 'meh'. It didn't feel like Doctor Who, or at least, it didn't match my personal idea of what Doctor Who was. Conversely, it WAS closer to the original concept of the show, back when it started, so who am I to critique?

This season, however, has been wonderful. Just the right amount of mythology explored, a degree of 'arc' across the whole run, plus Jodie Whittaker got the opportunity to show off her acting ability. She's become THE DOCTOR this season, and it culminated in the finale, which pleased, teased and setup future story arcs in equal measure.

It's always good to see a properly unhinged Master as well, and now we can begin the understand WHY he's always soooo angry.

Loved it.

Mate...who was jo martin’s character supposed to be?

Was she the matrix itself, or was she a future incarnation of the doctor.

I couldn’t work that one out!

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Mate...who was jo martin’s character supposed to be?

Was she the matrix itself, or was she a future incarnation of the doctor.

I couldn’t work that one out!

Did you watch the earlier episode 'Fugitive of the Judoon'? It's all about her character.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Did you watch the earlier episode 'Fugitive of the Judoon'? It's all about her character.

Ah no I didn’t. I’ll have a look. Thanks

 

[Papa Lazarou]

[MENTION=20]Publius Ovidius[/MENTION] From the 2 episodes where Jo Martin's doctor appears it is pretty clear she's a doctor from before the mind wipe shown in the episode. She was clearly working for The Division when the current Doc met her, and as neither remembered being the other one, a mid wipe has occurred to ensure this.

It would appear that as well as the many incarnations of the 'Timeless Child' that existed whilst Tecteun experimented on her, there were those who served the Division BEFORE the mind wipe, after which William Hartnell's doc is allowed to grow up as a timelord, unaware of their true origin. Jo Martin's doc is one of those.

 

[Biscuit]

Agree, that has absolutely killed it for me. In fairness the Doctor's change from alien outcast to some sort of godlike figure started before the Chibnall era. The 'old', pre-reboot Doctor didn't have a fraction of the knowledge that the 'new' doctors have, let alone all the super mental powers that he/she seems to have acquired. We thought that when he got K9 it was making him too powerful! (And don't get me started on the sonic screwdriver).

So yeah, very disappointed with the way the new series has gone, and that's nothing against Jodie who is no more irritating than, say, Matt Smith. (And way better as the Doctor than Sylvester McCoy). There's been some good episodes, but overall it's been poor. I was so bored/annoyed by the final episode (only just watched it on catch-up) that I found it a real struggle to stick it out to the end.

Anyway, that's me done with it. Sad day.

Totally agree. I'll try again when Chibnall's gone.

For me, I can't accept pre-Hartnell Doctors, so I'm going with The Master manipulated the Matrix to rile the Doctor into helping him destroy Gallifrey. In the same way the Valeyard manipulated things during Trial of a Timelord.

But for now, I'm out. Awful, unwatchable television.

 

[Biscuit]

[MENTION=20]Publius Ovidius[/MENTION] From the 2 episodes where Jo Martin's doctor appears it is pretty clear she's a doctor from before the mind wipe shown in the episode. She was clearly working for The Division when the current Doc met her, and as neither remembered being the other one, a mid wipe has occurred to ensure this.

It would appear that as well as the many incarnations of the 'Timeless Child' that existed whilst Tecteun experimented on her, there were those who served the Division BEFORE the mind wipe, after which William Hartnell's doc is allowed to grow up as a timelord, unaware of their true origin. Jo Martin's doc is one of those.

With a sonic screwdriver? Doctor didn't get that until his second incarnation? And why is the TARDIS Shaped like a Policebox? We know it took this form in 1963 but why would it have done in 2020? A Season 6B Dr (crap idea) makes more sense.

The whole thing is badly written tosh. They've just toying with the origins of one of TV's greatest mysteries for cheap kicks and it's destroyed the mythos for me. Not knowing is always going to be more exciting. They'd shouldn't have gone there.

 

[AmexRuislip]

Good point, I thought that was odd, I was under the impression the Tardis was sentient and would not tolerate anyone/thing it didn't like setting foot in it. Plus, them little wooden doors are impervious to anyone and everything apart from the right Yale key.

The master have advised the Rhino police , on how to get past the Tardis energy shield

 

[giveusfalmerplease]

unless i missed it , nobody here mentioned that at last we have an explanation why the Doctor has already exceeded the maximum number of regenerations - no more need for theories about parallel universes etc. They can just reincarnate DH until hes been a he/she/ethnic/dog/cat/sheep etc.

 

[giveusfalmerplease]

With a sonic screwdriver? Doctor didn't get that until his second incarnation? And why is the TARDIS Shaped like a Policebox? We know it took this form in 1963 but why would it have done in 2020? A Season 6B Dr (crap idea) makes more sense.

The whole thing is badly written tosh. They've just toying with the origins of one of TV's greatest mysteries for cheap kicks and it's destroyed the mythos for me. Not knowing is always going to be more exciting. They'd shouldn't have gone there.

unless im mistaken in the last episode it came back as a HOUSE....

 

[Curious Orange]

unless im mistaken in the last episode it came back as a HOUSE....

Different TARDIS.

 

[Biscuit]

unless im mistaken in the last episode it came back as a HOUSE....

I was referring to the Ruth Doctor's buried TARDIS.

 

[jonnyrovers]

The only Dr Who I've ever watched was the one with Tracey Ann Oberman as a baddie, and in all honesty I only watched the bits with her in. She gives me sex wobbles.

 

[Acker79]

With a sonic screwdriver? Doctor didn't get that until his second incarnation? And why is the TARDIS Shaped like a Policebox? We know it took this form in 1963 but why would it have done in 2020? A Season 6B Dr (crap idea) makes more sense.

I can't remember in detail now, but when did she arrive? Is it possible she arrived at a time that a police box would be a suitable (and suitably convenient and coincidental) disguise, for it to take before she buried it?

They've just toying with the origins of one of TV's greatest mysteries for cheap kicks and it's destroyed the mythos for me.

I read an article predicting this storyline based on a theory that had been around for a while (probably based on the previous episode that other posters have referred to above). So it's not exactly a new idea just brought in for fun. Beyond that, it removes the worry 12 doctors down the line when they need to explain why the doctor is exceeding the regeneration limit again.

Not knowing is always going to be more exciting. They'd shouldn't have gone there.

Not knowing what? We 'knew' the doctor's species, and 'knew' his history on Gallifrey, and the all about the time wars etc. What do we know now? What exactly is a timeless child? Where did they come from? What are the limits of their powers? What does it mean for the doctor? Are there any more of them?

 

[Sorrel]

The Irish part was (apparently) metaphorical memories of the Doctor's past lives before the mind wipe happened beamed into her head by the matrix to symbolically remind her of previous existences.

 

[Biscuit]

I can't remember in detail now, but when did she arrive? Is it possible she arrived at a time that a police box would be a suitable (and suitably convenient and coincidental) disguise, for it to take before she buried it?



I read an article predicting this storyline based on a theory that had been around for a while (probably based on the previous episode that other posters have referred to above). So it's not exactly a new idea just brought in for fun. Beyond that, it removes the worry 12 doctors down the line when they need to explain why the doctor is exceeding the regeneration limit again.



Not knowing what? We 'knew' the doctor's species, and 'knew' his history on Gallifrey, and the all about the time wars etc. What do we know now? What exactly is a timeless child? Where did they come from? What are the limits of their powers? What does it mean for the doctor? Are there any more of them?

1. The Ruth's Doctor's TARDIS landed in contemporary England. No reason for it to be a Police Box.

2. It's based on a very dubious fan 'Virgin New Adventures' novel. A range for being well known for playing fast and loose with canon. It's called 'Lungbarrow'. I wouldn't recommend it.

3. I think you're deliberately misunderstanding this one. The Doctor's history (like his name etc) is best left untouched. Shrouding it in mystery is far more interesting than anything a writer could come up with. Especially, let's be honest, Chris Chibnall.

You can try and argue the minutiae all you like but this is Doctor Who's Last Jedi moment. It's confusing and uninteresting for most newer fans and unpalatable for old.

 

[Acker79]

3. I think you're deliberately misunderstanding this one. The Doctor's history (like his name etc) is best left untouched. Shrouding it in mystery is far more interesting than anything a writer could come up with. Especially, let's be honest, Chris Chibnall.

I'm not deliberately misunderstanding. My point (that I may not have clearly explained) was more that over the years the mystery that did surround the doctor has been stripped away, as successive series leads have put their own spin on things, and tried to expand the mythos leading to us knowing more and more about him. To me, there is a lot more mystery to 'the timeless child' (both before they were found by Tecteun and prior to the mind wipe) now than there was to the Doctor at the start of the last episode.

I'm not trying to prove you wrong (not that I would think finding a flaw in the minutiae of your complaints would invalidate it). Just trying to add to the discussion.

With regard to Chibnall, I think I fall in line with Papa Lazarou - not particularly fond of the last season of the show, but really enjoyed this one.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

[MENTION=20]Publius Ovidius[/MENTION] From the 2 episodes where Jo Martin's doctor appears it is pretty clear she's a doctor from before the mind wipe shown in the episode. She was clearly working for The Division when the current Doc met her, and as neither remembered being the other one, a mid wipe has occurred to ensure this.

It would appear that as well as the many incarnations of the 'Timeless Child' that existed whilst Tecteun experimented on her, there were those who served the Division BEFORE the mind wipe, after which William Hartnell's doc is allowed to grow up as a timelord, unaware of their true origin. Jo Martin's doc is one of those.

The suspension of disbelief was first mooted by Aristotle. It seems that you and I have learned from the ancient Greeks the art of enjoyment of fiction, whereas others have not.

ps, I bet [MENTION=28934]AmexRuislip[/MENTION] will now post, in faux incredulity: "are you trying to tell us that Dr Who isn't real?"

 

[AmexRuislip]

The suspension of disbelief was first mooted by Aristotle. It seems that you and I have learned from the ancient Greeks the art of enjoyment of fiction, whereas others have not.

ps, I bet [MENTION=28934]AmexRuislip[/MENTION] will now post, in faux incredulity: "are you trying to tell us that Dr Who isn't real?"

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Ps: Isn't Dr Who really a gender neutral for all sci fi nerds

 

[Acker79]

Anyone watch the episode on sunday? I think for me the best bit was the clip of the next episode showing Ace returning!