Do you believe in Jesus Christ ?

[Jello Biafra]

I believe and hope there is life after death.

You hope there is life after death. Belief in life after death is no more logically consistent than hoping that there is life after death. I hope that I meet all my friends and those dear to me and have a jolly nice time for eternity in the afterlife, who wouldn't? Your position is logically no different from an atheist like me, apart from the Jesus bit, which is obviously totally irrelevant to me. If it is relevant to you, why should that make any difference to my view of what you hope for?

 

[jimhigham]

People are to blame for their own acts. A religion gives guidance and helps people find a few answers in their own lives. All the atrocities that have happened in the name of religion re committed by people who are trying to justify their own misdeeds and desires. Religion has also been the base of basic laws such as not killing each other, etc. Hard to say nothing good has come from religion. If you look at many of the bigger religions and boil their ideals down to one general statement about life, you will appease many different gods by living the best life for yourself and for others.
Too many things can be seen as a bane of society if you only focus on the ways it can be used negatively.

People are to blame for their own actions yet religion rises above that and is blameless? As regards the suggestion that religion provides the "basic laws such as not killing each other", I assume you are deriving that from the same old testament that warrants slavery, genocide and rape? I often hear the argument that Jesus arrived and wiped the slate clean from the bad old stuff in the old testament and yet apologists still cling to the old testament ten commandments. That sounds very much like special pleading to me.

As to the point of whether or not Jesus existed, the story is very similar to other earlier myths, such as Mithra or Dionysus. Sounds more like a hand me down to me.

Apologies to all of you that I have offended.

 

[rocker959]

This is about right !!!

 

[jimhigham]

Incidentally, I should add that your faith is your business and good luck to you. I only object once your faith becomes my business and presumes to tell me what I should get up to.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

At present according to the poll there are 2 non-believers to every believer,if you are a believer just ask yourselves this.....

GOD IS PERFECT...

OK, you are told to praise God,if he was perfect he would not want you to praise him.....vanity is not perfection....just ask Samantha Brick!

GOD IS ALL FORGIVING.
If I lead a life of sin and debauchery,when I die I could go to heaven knock on the pearly gates and say "Look mate,sorry about my evil ways". God, in his all forgiving way will say,"That's alright me old china,all's forgiven",whilst all you do-gooders who have been leading the righteous way of,no drinking,no sex,no fun will enter just the same as me,maybe even at a lower scale as me as there is none so pure as the purified......that's me suckers!

Years ago I used to draw my own Christmas cards to send...one of them ,if it had been true would've stopped religion in it's tracks.
...

 

[Seagull on the wing]

God looks at the huge empty space around him and decides to put in planets and stars. For six days he worked hard creating his masterpiece,did not stop for even a cupp'a tea. Planets there,Suns splattered randomly with stars abound. On the seventh day he rested and looked around quite chuffed with his handiwork. He called Archangel Gabriel and said,What'do think of that then?" Gabriel looked around and replied"Tis a wonderous thing you have done me Ol' mucker. Gabriel staring at the heavens noticed a small planet all blue and green and white which stood out amongst the other planets of dull grey and brown.
"And that ",says Gabriel,what is that one?"
"Ah!that "explains God,"that is Earth, a world where people will inhabit,I have made them in the image of us,but most of all,it will be a planet of diversitities.
"Diversitities God,what do you mean?"
God pointed to Africa and said"See there,there will be people who are almost black in colour,whilst there...(pointing to China) will be people who are yellow in colour,see what I mean,diversitities".
"And what about the rest of the world? Says Gabriel.
God points to the middle East and says,"There! there it will be hot, but the white bits at the top and bottom of the Earth will be extrenely cold...you see Diversities..and here in South America there will be poor people whilst there in North America rich people".
Gabriel was all agog,still looking, a twinkle caught his eye.."And there,God,what is that?
Ah! That is the jewel of my crown,it will be known as the United Kingdom,the people will be great explorers,scientist,adventurers,law makers,builders..people who will be good and just.
"But",says Gabriel what about diversitity,you said it would be a world of diversities.
God pointed to just across the channel and said,"You wait till you see the Ar*sholes I've put next to them!!

Now I have just about offended all the religious and racial purist...I bade you well,May your god go with you.
Apologies to those who have heard this joke....I now must indulge in a couple of pints of the devils brew!!

 

[Taybha]

we get 13-15 points from the last 5 games then yes

 

[Triggaaar]

I assume you are deriving that from the same old testament that warrants slavery, genocide and rape?

A little education on the old testament required here please. Have you got any links?

Apologies to all of you that I have offended.

That should be my signature!

This is about right !!!

brilliant.

 

[Dave the OAP]

People are to blame for their own actions yet religion rises above that and is blameless? As regards the suggestion that religion provides the "basic laws such as not killing each other", I assume you are deriving that from the same old testament that warrants slavery, genocide and rape? I often hear the argument that Jesus arrived and wiped the slate clean from the bad old stuff in the old testament and yet apologists still cling to the old testament ten commandments. That sounds very much like special pleading to me.

As to the point of whether or not Jesus existed, the story is very similar to other earlier myths, such as Mithra or Dionysus. Sounds more like a hand me down to me.

Apologies to all of you that I have offended.

Having studied Dionysus in detail for this course, or bacchus as the Romans liked to call him/her, you can make a pretty convincing argument that the story of Jesus and early christianity was based on the belief that Dionysus was the god of Epiphany "the god that comes"

The main problem though in the Bronze Age is one of evidence. The earliest physical evidence is the Linear B stone showing his name and worship around 1500 to 1100 BC by the Mycenean people and later by the Minoans. But as all history at that time was basically oral, Homer, etc it cant be relied on with 100% accuracy

 

[Foster House]

You're joking, right? There is absolutely no evidence that such a man ever existed. No grave, no documentation, no contemporaneous accounts at all, no Roman archives, nothing.

Pontius Pilate left no written evidence that such a man had been executed. This is unusual, to say the least, for a society like the Romans that kept meticulous records about everything that went on in its provinces and with its subjects, especially executions.

Plenty of non-biblical writing exists from that time and that place, but none of it mentions a man by this name, or any stories that we might recognise as being about such a person.

All accounts of the man known as Jesus originate from the four gospels; Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, of which Matthew, Mark and John's accounts of Jesus are essentially rehashes of Luke (I might have the order wrong there). All of these were written at least 150 years after the supposed death of this man.

The versions we have of these accounts have been translated umpteen times over the years by people with all kinds of political reasons for spicing something up, toning something down, censoring or adding something to. So, yes, in my opinion, I think it would be perfectly reasonable to suggest it is in dispute.

The gospels, or better evidence of their circulation were in evidence long before the 150 years you suggest. The synpotics (the gospels other than John) appear to point to an original, as yet unfound document, written probably within 30 years of his death. In my studies of church history I placed Mark as the oldest gospel (aroud AD 70-80) some historians have it earlier.

There are many secular documents that refer to christ in the century following his death. Notably Tallus (c AD 50-60) who tried to explain away the darkness that enveloped the land at the crucifixion as an eclipse, the famous Jewish historian Josephus makes references to Christ (c AD 70)- although it is my belief that his references have been doctored down the ages to read differently.

Christs existence is doubted by few because of sequential evidence. One early bishop writes of his mentor, another of their mentor and so on and eventually it all traces back to the disciples. I could give much more detail but I neither have the time or inclination as much of the debate on here is subjective conjecture.

Suffice to say that no-one doubts the existence of the disciples as they are alluded to in many traditions, and by first and second generation ordainees.

So the question is more who was Jesus, rather than if Jesus was.

One Roman centurion, who's writing was found, described him as a 'Sophist whom we crucified in Palestine'. Perhaps he was, but the spread of christianity as a lie based on a fictional character is absurd, as the recorded deaths of thousands of followers at the hands of the Romans so close to the 'events' suggests at a minimum that the subject of this oppression was real even if we doubt his claims.

 

[Soton Seagull]

A friend of mine recently bought the following (never posted a picture before so may not work); sums it up for me....

 

[sydney]

A friend of mine recently bought the following (never posted a picture before so may not work); sums it up for me....

and with that can we see this thread plummet off the edge of NSC reality and hurtle towards the fiery abyss......

 

[Dave the OAP]

. Notably Tallus (c AD 50-60) who tried to explain away the darkness that enveloped the land at the crucifixion as an eclipse, .

which Tallus?

 

[severnside gull]

It seems clear that every social grouping in recorded history has needed a god or gods/some form of organised religion. From that we can assume that social groups in pre-history were no different, and if that is the case it is pretty evidently an in-built need for people to have some "higher" being or beings to explain their existence and give some meaning to questions of life and death to which there might ultimately be no logical explanation beyond "we are because we are" and for most that is not enough. What form that belief takes, from paganism to christianity, islam to bhuddism, and including atheism as effectively another form of belief, doesn't really matter. The simple fact is that most people need some form of belief - take your choice which one you want to follow and how closely you need to adhere to it. That will probably vary depending on where you are in your life,
For certain, organised religion is as responsible as organised politics for much of the harm that one man does to another. But that too is the nature of man.

 

[sydney]

For certain, organised religion is as responsible as organised politics for much of the harm that one man does to another. But that too is the nature of man.[/QUOTE]

hell yeah brother...!!!

 

[father_and_son]

Sure he existed, but the religion...no

THIS. Plus, I'm pretty sure he'd have been diagnosed Schzophrenic if he were alive now. Auditory hallucinations (eg hearing the voice of god in your head) are the most common symptom!

 

[goldstone]

Exactly this.

JC is made up. As is religion.

ALL RELIGION.

It always amazes me that some of the most intelligent and lucid people I know can still believe in this fairy tale.

We don't pay attention to scientific books from 2000 years ago any more, as they have been proven to be innacurate. So why we pay attention to religious books from 2000 years ago that can also easily be proven to be innacurate is beyond me.

Now there's a good post.

 

[k2bluesky]

Do you believe there is any intelligent live beyond the solar system?
If yes then Jesus may have been from there and could have be eons ahead of us in evolution, thus resurrection might be but a trick of the light, from which we are all made.
If no, then surly with all the trillions of stars in the universe, around which planet have evolved, you must believe God made this planet for us and Jesus could well have been sent to instruct the human race in how to conduct itself.

 

[Mr Burns]

Do you believe there is any intelligent live beyond the solar system?
If yes then Jesus may have been from there and could have be eons ahead of us in evolution, thus resurrection might be but a trick of the light, from which we are all made.
If no, then surly with all the trillions of stars in the universe, around which planet have evolved, you must believe God made this planet for us and Jesus could well have been sent to instruct the human race in how to conduct itself.

Can I have some of what you're smoking

Cuckoo Cuckoo Cuckoo

 

[Acker79]

I was brought up a Catholic, I believe Jesus existed, I believe and hope there is life after death.

"Life after death is as improbable as sex after marriage"