Do we do worse with Vicente on the pitch?

[Acker79]

As much as we love a player thats pretty poor given how much we have invested in him!

I wonder if anyone else has such a negative statistical influence on our game

Without Kuszczak we have 100% win rate (one game).
Without Bridcutt we have 100% win rate (thee games).

We also win more (% wise) without:
Greer
El Abd
Crofts
Lualua
Bridge
Buckley
Hoskins
Barnes
Dobbie




But, as others have said, it's not so simple. Barnes has been on the field for 65% of our game time, but we scored 72% our goals with him on the pitch. We can't win without scoring, so how does that tally?


Kuszczak 97.2%mins, 96%scored, 97.2%conceded
Greer 77.9%mins, 82%scored, 83.3%conceded
El Abd 81.7%mins, 82%scored, 77.8%conceded
Crofts 31.4%mins, 18%scored, 44.4%conceded
Vicente 12.4%mins, 6%scored, 8.3%conceded
Lualua 16.6%mins, 18%scored, 22.2%conceded
Bridcutt 89.0%mins, 84%scored, 94.4%conceded
Bridge 80.1%mins, 76%scored, 77.8%conceded
Buckley 61.0%mins, 64%scored, 58.3%conceded
Barnes 64.9%mins, 72%scored, 66.7%conceded
Hoskins 11.3%mins, 12%scored, 11.1%conceded
Dobbie 19.0%mins, 16%scored, 16.7%conceded

(%mins is the percentage of minutes they were on the pitch for, %scored is the percentage of goals scored while they were on the pitch, %conceded is the percentage of goals conceded while they were on the pitch)

If the impact an individual makes on a team is positive, goals scored % should be higher than time on the pitch %, and goals conceded % should be lower than time on the pitch %


NB
As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, football is a team game, and the impact of one person is limited by the fact there are others in on the pitch with him. But, I thought I'd add these stats to the conversation.

Interestingly, Brezovan has played 2.8% of our league game time and conceded 2.8% of our goals. I don't know why I find that interesting.

 

[Flavor Flav]

Vi-cen-te.

Not hard, is it?

****ing hell it was a typo. Could you really be any more boring to spend time to point that out?

 

[W.C.]

Last season it was 3/4 wins in 17 games or something, but I can't be sure exactly. Obviously those stats will have changed now. I'm not going to look it up - too much effort!

too much effort? Oh well, might as well trot out your opinion though eh?

 

[seagulls4ever]

too much effort? Oh well, might as well trot out your opinion though eh?

It wasn't an opinion, it was a fact.

And, unsurprisingly, to post that takes a lot less effort than to manually go through every single game Vicente has played for the Albion to find the exact numbers. I don't know about you, but I have better things to do.

 

[seagullmouse]

Without Kuszczak we have 100% win rate (one game).
Without Bridcutt we have 100% win rate (thee games).

We also win more (% wise) without:
Greer
El Abd
Crofts
Lualua
Bridge
Buckley
Hoskins
Barnes
Dobbie

View attachment 40179


But, as others have said, it's not so simple. Barnes has been on the field for 65% of our game time, but we scored 72% our goals with him on the pitch. We can't win without scoring, so how does that tally?


Kuszczak 97.2%mins, 96%scored, 97.2%conceded
Greer 77.9%mins, 82%scored, 83.3%conceded
El Abd 81.7%mins, 82%scored, 77.8%conceded
Crofts 31.4%mins, 18%scored, 44.4%conceded
Vicente 12.4%mins, 6%scored, 8.3%conceded
Lualua 16.6%mins, 18%scored, 22.2%conceded
Bridcutt 89.0%mins, 84%scored, 94.4%conceded
Bridge 80.1%mins, 76%scored, 77.8%conceded
Buckley 61.0%mins, 64%scored, 58.3%conceded
Barnes 64.9%mins, 72%scored, 66.7%conceded
Hoskins 11.3%mins, 12%scored, 11.1%conceded
Dobbie 19.0%mins, 16%scored, 16.7%conceded

(%mins is the percentage of minutes they were on the pitch for, %scored is the percentage of goals scored while they were on the pitch, %conceded is the percentage of goals conceded while they were on the pitch)

If the impact an individual makes on a team is positive, goals scored % should be higher than time on the pitch %, and goals conceded % should be lower than time on the pitch %


NB
As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, football is a team game, and the impact of one person is limited by the fact there are others in on the pitch with him. But, I thought I'd add these stats to the conversation.

Interestingly, Brezovan has played 2.8% of our league game time and conceded 2.8% of our goals. I don't know why I find that interesting.

Epic data - thanks for that!

And I get the fact it isn't quite as simple as picking the highest win percentage, but over a period of 10+ games I think these numbers do reveal something...

Orlandi, Dicker, Calderon make us more likely to win...

If this were champ. man I would have given up on Vicente by now regardless of his fancy stats!

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

Without Kuszczak we have 100% win rate (one game).
Without Bridcutt we have 100% win rate (thee games).

We also win more (% wise) without:
Greer
El Abd
Crofts
Lualua
Bridge
Buckley
Hoskins
Barnes
Dobbie

View attachment 40179


But, as others have said, it's not so simple. Barnes has been on the field for 65% of our game time, but we scored 72% our goals with him on the pitch. We can't win without scoring, so how does that tally?


Kuszczak 97.2%mins, 96%scored, 97.2%conceded
Greer 77.9%mins, 82%scored, 83.3%conceded
El Abd 81.7%mins, 82%scored, 77.8%conceded
Crofts 31.4%mins, 18%scored, 44.4%conceded
Vicente 12.4%mins, 6%scored, 8.3%conceded
Lualua 16.6%mins, 18%scored, 22.2%conceded
Bridcutt 89.0%mins, 84%scored, 94.4%conceded
Bridge 80.1%mins, 76%scored, 77.8%conceded
Buckley 61.0%mins, 64%scored, 58.3%conceded
Barnes 64.9%mins, 72%scored, 66.7%conceded
Hoskins 11.3%mins, 12%scored, 11.1%conceded
Dobbie 19.0%mins, 16%scored, 16.7%conceded

(%mins is the percentage of minutes they were on the pitch for, %scored is the percentage of goals scored while they were on the pitch, %conceded is the percentage of goals conceded while they were on the pitch)

If the impact an individual makes on a team is positive, goals scored % should be higher than time on the pitch %, and goals conceded % should be lower than time on the pitch %


NB
As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, football is a team game, and the impact of one person is limited by the fact there are others in on the pitch with him. But, I thought I'd add these stats to the conversation.

Interestingly, Brezovan has played 2.8% of our league game time and conceded 2.8% of our goals. I don't know why I find that interesting.

Like you say, there are limitations with statistics like this, but the one I find most notable is the win w/o CMS - we only win 28.5% of matches without him in the team. CMS has a fair few critics for not scoring enough (which there is a case for) and for having a poor first touch(even more of a case for), but his overall contribution often gets over-looked, IMO. He does a lot of stuff that indirectly benefits the team when he's on the pitch. I suspect most realised anyway, but we really will miss him in the run in.

 

[Petee]

So we haven't lost when Barnes hasn't played? Sounds promising now with his suspension haha.

 

[Mowgli37]

As much as playing Vicente is great fun and we like to talk about how good he is... it seems that whenever he plays we do worse...

Does anyone know what our avg points per game is with him starting and not starting? I can't be bothered to work it out but have a gut feel it won't be in his favour?

I wonder if he makes us play a nice open game that is fun to watch but leaves us too open to concede.

After yesterday, I'd say yes

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

I think that if he doesn't score in any of the remaining games he won't be offered a new contract regardless of which division we'll be in next season.

 

[Questions]

He looked dreadfully slow yesterday. He won't start another game for us but impact subs play their part.

 

[Mowgli37]

I think that if he doesn't score in any of the remaining games he won't be offered a new contract regardless of which division we'll be in next season.

I can see it now...he comes on in the 85th minute in the final, we're trailing 2-1...he scores a brace with seconds to spare, receives mega-money contract for his troubles then breaks his leg in the first match of next season

 

[BensGrandad]

I think that he may be brought on during the final at Wembley if we get there

 

[Mowgli37]

I think that he may be brought on during the final at Wembley if we get there

If we're playing Watford then no way, Vydra would rape him with his pace

 

[jackcgull]

He was good yesterday. Some lovely touches, an amazing cross and very nearly a couple of goals. Can see him being very influential in playoffs. Quite an amusing tantrum near the end too!

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

He looked dreadfully slow yesterday. He won't start another game for us but impact subs play their part.

I think he has lost his mojo , at Elland Road he had a shot from 20 yards out that should have been buried in back of the net but it went high and wide. Having said that it was Vicente who sprayed the ball over to Orlandi on the wing who then crossed it over for Spanish Len to head in the winner.

 

[BensGrandad]

Mowgli 37:When would Vicente be expected to be marking or tackling Vydra

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

I think that he may be brought on during the final at Wembley if we get there

Definitely need him on the pitch if it goes to penalties after extra time.

 

[Stat Brother]

I have a fantasy about next season in The Premier League, hence the fantasy bit.

We keep Vicente, and he's miraculously fit for 37 games, only missing Sunderland away on a Tuesday night in January, and us being a little grumpy about it.

 

[desprateseagull]

Cant see him lasting long, in premier league.. best years are behind him methinks.

 

[Meade's Ball]

His pace probably left him countless years gone. His skill is being able to have a ball glued to his feet and being able to stop and start without ever losing control, shimmying and feinting. He still has that in droves. Add the ability to weight a pass of 30 yards into the path of a teammate that scythes a defence open and you have a remarkable player. It might not always work perfectly to have him in our ranks, but when he has the ball the expectations rise of something to happen, and quite often they do. He has the power to excite and i'd be happy for him to stay, maybe at a cheaper rate, if he and his kin are settled and merry.