Do we do worse with Vicente on the pitch?

[Pogue Mahone]

Away from home our players tend to get ran through a lot which obviously doesn't help us. Vincente in particular likes a little more time on the ball and he just doesn't get that. Personally, I'd just use him as a second half sub.

NO!!! He's been here nearly two years. It's Vicente.

A simple but irritating error, and one of Aspinall's many faux pas too.

 

[Meade's Ball]

I don't do worse when he's on. I ruddy love it. His stats in this season's much improved and closer to his level team will be minimal, so not a lot to be read into it. In most times he brings something shockingly extraordinary to the table, but he can't be expected to do it all perfectly on every occasion. But his off-days can not be labelled the cause for defeat. We have a team out there as far as i remember and they each have to take responsibility, for the result and of how they play off of each teammate, rather than just how they rebound and protect the master.
I think he'll be mustard against the grotty goons next Sunday.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Given there are 10 other players in the team it's not as simple as when he starts verses when he doesn't.

Absolutely. You need to analyse which particular players are with him on the pitch at each given time and scoreline. Far too simplistic and very unfair to single out one player like this, without looking at the performances of others.

The Albion have professionals though who actually do this analysis, although their findings are of course never publicised.

 

[Thimble Keegan]

I do not care for what these stats are supposed to tell us because Vicente is probably the best player in this division so we are clearly going to be a better side with him in the team.

The main concern is that other teams have worked out that he is our main man and are now setting out to stop him. Yesterday was a case in point as whenever Vicente got the ball he was instantly swarmed on by Bolton players and basically crowded out. He was also on the end of some rather British football style treatment which never helps.

I just hope Vicente is fresh for the Palace game as he will be the best player that either side has so will be a massive advantage for us.

Albion & England forever.

Thimble Keegan
Worthing BHA

 

[Brighton Mod]

As much as playing Vicente is great fun and we like to talk about how good he is... it seems that whenever he plays we do worse...

Does anyone know what our avg points per game is with him starting and not starting? I can't be bothered to work it out but have a gut feel it won't be in his favour?

I wonder if he makes us play a nice open game that is fun to watch but leaves us too open to concede.

I like watching Vicente play and he brings a certain dimension to the team, the only observation I would make is that when he does play, our game plan appears to be to get the ball to him at all costs and he becomes the centre of our world, thus excluding the talents of Dave in particular and others in general. IMHO I believe he is best used as a second half sub for half an hour to run against tired legs etc, he played effectively like that last year. That way he can make an impact and then make the early plane home back to Spain for the weekend ( just being cheeky).

 

[WASH]

For what it's worth and to put some meat on the bones of the stats he's started 16 games and we've won only 2 of them (Derby last season and Burnley this season), Drawn 7 and Lost 7. League games it's W2 D7 L6. When coming on as a sub it's W4 D4 L4 (Lge games W4 D4 L2) and when named in the matchday squad, but not playing, the team have W4 D0 L1 (Lge games W4 D0 L0). So he's started 16, come on as a sub 12, scoring a total of 5 goals (2 when starting and 3 as a sub) and sat on the bench 5 times. Not necessarily the best figures in the world but for sure I'd rather him be involved as much as possible as you just never know what he will do next with the ball at his feet and how many oppo players are going to look right mugs as he dribbles round them and leaves them wondering where he's gone!

 

[Acker79]

This Season
With
Win 2 (25%)
Draw 4 (50%)
Loss 2 (25%)

Without
Win 12 (43%)
Draw 10 (36%)
Loss 6 (21%)


Last season
With
Win 4 (24%)
Draw 7 (41%%)
Loss 6 (35%%)

Without
Win 13 (45%)
Draw 8 (27.5%)
Loss 8 (27.5%)

 

[paul pring]

wait and see sunday,he will run the show and get m.o.m award .pure class

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

How many shots did he have yesterday ? How many decent passes did he lay on ? He certainly put in 100% yesterday. I think he will be rested on Tuesday so that he is ready for next Sunday.

 

[pork pie]

I think there is an issue. It is certainly not his ability, but the over-use of him when he plays makes our play very limited and predictable.

 

[Frutos]

Away from home our players tend to get ran through a lot which obviously doesn't help us. Vincente in particular likes a little more time on the ball and he just doesn't get that. Personally, I'd just use him as a second half sub.

Vi-cen-te.

Not hard, is it?

 

[marshy68]

He doesn't seem to get more than a 5 in the player ratings threads when away from home.

he was disappointing yesterday - spearing did a job on him in the first half and he soon realized he wasn't going to get anything out of the ref... was a passenger for the last 20 - shame as I love him.

 

[Bladders]

This Season
With
Win 2 (25%)
Draw 4 (50%)
Loss 2 (25%)

Without
Win 12 (43%)
Draw 10 (36%)
Loss 6 (21%)


Last season
With
Win 4 (24%)
Draw 7 (41%%)
Loss 6 (35%%)

Without
Win 13 (45%)
Draw 8 (27.5%)
Loss 8 (27.5%)

Best stick him in the development squad.

 

[Seasider78]

I think there is an issue. It is certainly not his ability, but the over-use of him when he plays makes our play very limited and predictable.

There is an awful lot of truth in that

 

[brakespear]

Seems to me that Vicente is the type of player that is extremely good home but is of no use away as he tends to go missing.

Maybe somebody should travel with him

 

[seagulls4ever]

So your first post was just a complete lie?

Nice selective quotation there.

No, it wasn't a lie. I know for sure that we, statistically, do better without him in the side then with him in the side - the main point of my post. However, I do not know the exact numbers off the top of my head. Do you understand?

Edit: Acker has now posted the statistics, proving me right. Feel free to apologise.

 

[ferring seagull]

I like watching Vicente play and he brings a certain dimension to the team, the only observation I would make is that when he does play, our game plan appears to be to get the ball to him at all costs and he becomes the centre of our world, thus excluding the talents of Dave in particular and others in general. IMHO I believe he is best used as a second half sub for half an hour to run against tired legs etc, he played effectively like that last year. That way he can make an impact and then make the early plane home back to Spain for the weekend ( just being cheeky).

That was our 'game plan' rather more last season, but, this season there are a few more, perhaps not equally talented team mates, but team mates who are able to take the game forward. So whilst last season we tended to play everything through him when he was on the pitch (because there was no-one else), this year is somewhat different. I don't think that, when he is on the pitch, he excludes anyone else.

You say that, in your opinion and you may well be correct, that he is best brought on as an impact sub., but alternatively, he could be started to 'put the game out of sight' rather than bring him on when perhaps the game is lost.

PS. there has previously been an endless number of posts on this topic !

 

[Surf's Up]

To be fair, the stats do show that we perform much better with him not in the side than with him in the side.

This, he should be used as a starter for 60 minutes or as a sub and only at home and selected away games and yes, he is a luxury player

 

[Turkey]

I think we relied on him to much last season and the entire game plan seemed to be give him the ball which didn't always work out.

I don't think it's the same this time around though. We seem to be using the other players more such as Dave and Orlandi.

 

[seagullmouse]

This Season
With
Win 2 (25%)
Draw 4 (50%)
Loss 2 (25%)

Without
Win 12 (43%)
Draw 10 (36%)
Loss 6 (21%)


Last season
With
Win 4 (24%)
Draw 7 (41%%)
Loss 6 (35%%)

Without
Win 13 (45%)
Draw 8 (27.5%)
Loss 8 (27.5%)

As much as we love a player thats pretty poor given how much we have invested in him!

I wonder if anyone else has such a negative statistical influence on our game